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Caroline Tervoort-Visser is the CHRO at KPMG Netherlands, bringing extensive experience across sectors such as professional services, FMCG, entertainment, and regulated industries.

Caroline discusses the evolving role of HR in response to technological and social shifts, and shares a detailed insight into KPMG’s award-winning onboarding programme. She also reflects on the career risks she has taken and the significance of believing in yourself and your abilities.

I’d be interested to hear about your approach to integrating HR technology - specifically AI - in recruitment. How is KPMG utilizing it to address unconscious bias in the selection process?

Three to four years ago, we introduced AI-inspired technology for initial candidate selection, aiming for a completely unbiased process. By removing names and visuals from applications, we’ve achieved near gender parity at the entry level - a very positive and stable result.

We’re now looking at adopting new technology, set to go live in October, to take a closer look into new talent pools. This will help enhance the efficiency and effectiveness of our selection process, which has been quite traditional.

AI brings lots of opportunities, but it also raises ethical questions. We are a people business, so we need to take a closer look before pressing play. The earlier stages of AI assessments led to big biases, due to the language model receiving biased inputs - that's what you want to avoid.

We need to ensure we understand how AI can really work for us and open up talent pools, instead of narrowing them down. That's currently in the piloting phase, as we are exploring options, the quality of assessment, and how they compare to our classic recruitment process. When implemented, it will deliver great things.

At a recent Talent Acquisition event, we welcomed an industry expert who highlighted that, while AI will effectively handle many tasks, there will still be key touchpoints where human interaction is crucial. He stressed that, though AI can enhance efficiency, creating a meaningful, unforgettable candidate experience requires high-touch human connections at specific points in the journey.

When it comes to interpretation or interaction, that’s the remit of a human. AI doesn't have values or conscience, but it is your best assistant and can work in tremendous ways.

However, there are certain things that I - and we, as a company - believe you can never automate. Recently, we carried out our annual CEO outlook survey. It showed that 76% of global CEOs believe there will be no impact on the number of jobs. Instead, AI will change roles significantly, make them more productive, and create new jobs. I thought that was quite a remarkable finding.

That mirrors the conversations I've had with senior leaders. Many share similar insights, suggesting that roles will change, people will need to adapt and be willing to learn new skills, but the overall number of jobs may not necessarily change. Instead, technology will boost productivity and free people from transactional tasks, allowing them to focus on more engaging work.

I fully agree. Of course, there will be jobs that will vanish due to becoming fully automated. But that’s not so different from 25-30 years ago following the introduction of the internet. It's continuously evolving and quite a disruption.

All in all, I believe the number of roles will grow in the AI area. We will need more people with the ability to work with AI, its outcomes, data engineering, managing data lists, etc. I’m excited to see what will happen in the coming years.

You’ve previously mentioned an onboarding programme that won an award a few years ago. I'd love to hear more about that.

In 2022, we won an award for our fully hybrid onboarding programme, designed as a 100-day journey, which combines an app and classroom events. Throughout the programme, we have touchpoints where everybody comes together forging that engaging, cohort feeling.

We also have a two-to-three-day event centred on values and purpose.

A big part of our onboarding programme is instilling understanding and showing what it means to be part of our KPMG family.

The programme continuously evolves, with experiences and changes in recent years. It's a nice way to see that cohort bonding and people entering into a network where it's easy to reach out to one another. It takes time to get to know people outside your own team and the programme really accelerates that process. Beyond that, it’s fun, with many team-building activities. I love the programme!

What’s nice is that it brings everyone together - young and old, those experienced and those starting their career. At that moment, everybody is in the same place, learning from each other. They all go through the same experience, which is great. Everyone I've talked to over the past two years has explicitly said the onboarding programme is out of this world, and I've never seen it at other companies.

I'm really proud of it. It's not for recruitment purposes - as you’ve already decided to become a member of the KPMG family - but sparking that pride from the start helps people settle in well and feel that pride from day one. They take that pride into their teams, so it really helps.

Our engagement and retention rates continue to be very solid. It's a starting point of a long-term, unique employee experience, and it’s such an important kick start.

It sounds like there are lots of initiatives happening within the organization that people may not be aware of. Can you tell me more about that and how it ties into sustainability and trends in that space?

People know KPMG as one of the Big 4 accounting and advisory firms. Of course, we do a lot of traditional accountancy work - reporting on companies’ financials and financial health. But things are changing significantly with the non-financial KPIs that we support our clients with, such as Environmental, Social, and Governance (ESG).

In Europe, we are assisted by legislation like the Corporate Sustainability Reporting Directive (CSRD), which organizations must commit to. At KPMG, we find ourselves at the heart of what's happening in society, supporting clients in meeting corporate social responsibility compliance.

We also have a large advisory practice that's undergoing big changes, especially with our technology department, which has a remit of over 500 people. You can see that the practice is shifting towards becoming a tech house, rather than a classic consulting firm, driving larger long-term transformations globally. It’s evolving very fast.

Interestingly, we are still a very young company – something not everyone realizes. The average age is around 33-34. People are driven and eager to perform, learn, and explore different opportunities.

Also, in the Netherlands alone, we have over 83 nationalities. That diversity brings so much richness that isn’t what people typically associate with an accounting and advisory firm, and it’s one of the reasons why I love this business. You’re surrounded and inspired by the next generation, new ways of thinking, and knowledge that simply wasn’t available when we went to school 30 years ago.

Tell me about your career. Can you share a few moments where you’ve taken risks? And how did you know it was the right thing to do?

Sometimes, you don't really know if it’s the right decision - you just take the plunge. For me, my career has included two different lives at KPMG. In between, I explored completely different sectors, including the music entertainment industry, which is completely different to professional services, and then a role in the medicalized FMCG sector – not as fast moving as traditional consumer goods, but still very different from what I’ve done before.

After my first life at KPMG, I got a chance to build out an international People strategy in a completely different sector.

I thought I could either stay at KPMG - as there was a clear career path set out for me - or take the plunge, and explore what other companies with great cultures are out there. With some personal factors influencing my decision as well, I decided to take the opportunity.

That experience taught me a lot. You initially self-reflect: Why is it so scary? What does it say about me? And you have to move beyond that; feel the excitement, just go for it, and reinvent yourself.

I knew I could thrive in a different environment and forge new connections, as I did when I went to study in the Americas. I had enough self-confidence to say, “I can do this.” In a way, I felt like Pippi Langkous , who famously says, “I’ve never done it, so I think I can do it.” That became my motto.

When the next opportunity came along, it felt easier, because I had already experienced those feelings, and you carry that with you. HR skills are transferable, even though each sector is different - every organization needs HR. I have been lucky meeting leaders who recognized my vision, skills and personality, and trusted me to be successful in a different environment and asked me to join them.

My conviction is that, if an opportunity feels right, take it. You’re more likely to regret the things you didn’t do than those you did, even if it doesn’t turn out as you expected. There’s always something to learn from each experience.

Why is the Netherlands a great place to live?

I've travelled a lot and worked in many countries, so I’ve experienced many cultures up close. The Netherlands has a very high quality of living. The healthcare system and education facilities are of great quality, which is one of the reasons we see so many international people migrating here.

When we talk about international mobility, we have around 4,500 people working for us in the Netherlands, with a couple of hundred being international hires. It’s a talent pool we tap into as part of our workforce shaping strategy. Additionally, the Netherlands has a democratic culture with a low power distance; you can voice your opinion and there's lots of beauty in that.

However, having worked in different cultures, I've also learned to balance this openness with decisiveness. While it’s great to encourage voices and ideas - leading to innovative solutions - there are times when decisions need to be made more promptly. Sometimes, the Dutch can be overly democratic, which can delay action. Other cultures tend to reach that decision point more quickly. In gaining these international experiences, you gain a lot of leadership lessons.

What aspects of your HR role and your life outside of work bring you joy?

As I said, we truly need international mobility, especially with high-knowledge workers. The labor shortage will not go away in the coming years. Of course, AI and its hopeful productivity gains will help us close the gap, but not completely.

That's a big theme I will need to respond to in my profession, because it's so volatile and is everywhere at the moment. I’m following it very closely to see what things I have to manage and what challenges will come our way.

Then there's the skills gap. I talked about the education facilities, which are great, but when you look at what companies need at this moment and what is being delivered from universities or high schools, there’s a mismatch. We need to address it. We have to educate our own people and make them fit for the future. It is an important duty of care, not only for our own organization, but for society as well.

At KPMG, we have four (almost five) generations working for us, ranging from young employees around 18 years old to those in their 60s. We have to manage that, too. Not everyone - let's say the digital-savvy generation versus the more experienced generation - has the same pace. The more experienced generation does not lack the ability to become digitally savvy, but they come from different backgrounds and may prefer the more traditional – or transactional – parts of their work over technology, such as AI, taking over.

There’s also this duty of care as an employer to closely examine how we keep everyone employable and how we upskill them. This is a more ethical consideration to keep in mind.

When it comes to fun, I enjoy tackling these challenges. I have a great team, which makes for a rewarding environment in different types of settings. I engage with the Board of Management, our supervisory board, the works council, the HR community at large, my own HR team, and the business units we work with extensively. We enjoy challenging each other in achieving our People ambition, and get positive energy throughout the day in doing so.

From a content perspective, it’s fulfilling to see that we’re doing things that contribute to societal challenges. We impact 4,500 people with our work, and I always try to emphasize this to my HR team. They might feel like they’re just hiring new people or putting together a reward structure, but it’s not only about the techniques; it’s about the impact we create to our people and the communities they live in.  

This became clear when COVID hit us. We directly saw the impact we had by keeping everyone safe and tending to their wellbeing. It accelerated our thinking about the purpose of the team and how they contribute to the greater good. You have 4,500 people, but you also have their families. In a way, we contribute to a much broader community than just our own people, and I think that’s the beauty of the profession.

I’ve been involved in HR recruitment for about 18 years and witnessed the function evolve significantly. People often ask if I’d like to recruit for something different, but HR roles today are vastly different from what they were 18 years ago; they’ve constantly changed.

With all the aspects you’ve just mentioned, HR is such an impactful function that touches so many areas. I think your response reflects that - now is truly the best time to be part of the HR discipline.

Absolutely. That’s a true conviction, because of the trends we discussed earlier. Technology is impacting not only our own function, but all the functions and roles in the organization. This ties into the labor market and how we search for new skills, as well as how we retain our people and ensure they remain employable. All of this is driven by technology trends and the acceleration through AI.

We also have societal trends and the impact of significant movements like Me Too and Black Lives Matter. These big topics place a strong emphasis on culture, particularly the need to create psychologically and socially safe environments.

HR is now much more directly linked to the organization’s strategy, instead of just being a transactional function that ensures people get paid and that health and safety measures are in place. It’s much more than that, given all the significant shifts occurring simultaneously.

As I mentioned, regarding the different generations, this presents one of the reasons for a greater responsibility for our leaders. This evolving landscape means managers can no longer adopt a transactional approach, simply saying, "I’ll pay you monthly, so go do what I want." That way of managing is long gone. There’s a completely different human deal at play now, and many leaders - particularly those who are a bit more experienced - need to wrap their minds around this change. Maintaining a connection with the younger workforce and understanding their needs is challenging and requires continuous effort.

We invest heavily in ensuring our leaders adopt a more empathetic leadership style, instead of a transactional one. We place a strong focus on psychological safety and ethical behavior, making sure everyone feels comfortable in their teams and in their roles. This emphasis on culture, ethics, and values may have always been present, but it wasn’t always at the forefront of the HR discipline.

Now, it’s becoming increasingly important and may evolve into the major priority for HR, especially as transactional aspects could easily be handled by Operations or other functions. The real added value lies in our focus on culture and people.

Thank you to Caroline for speaking to Katie Insley, Director in our Human Resources recruitment team in the Netherlands. 

Views and opinions contained within our Executive Interviews are those of the interviewee and not views shared by EMEA Recruitment. 

Björn Sjögerås is the Legal Finance Director Nordic at Capgemini. A company with 340,000 employees in more than 50 countries. Prior to this, he was the Executive Finance Manager of the IT division at Tieto with 18,000 employees in 18 countries and sales spanning all five continents. He has over 25 years of experience in Finance & Accounting with a focus on growth strategies, sustainability, consultant management, business operations and transformation.

What is the most unexpected thing you have experienced in your career to date?

Not sure that it falls under the category of most unexpected but moving from a small town and a very Nordic company to a purely global organisation was different. I was surprised to see how different cultures communicate and act. We are still formed by our legacy and culture and therefore it is important to understand how this affects behaviour.

I was surprised by the straightforwardness of some cultures, expressing their career goals with “I want to be the new CFO” compared to the number of people who aren’t direct in communicating what they think or what they want. In some cultures, it’s more common to talk about your expectations and desires quite directly. Swedes and Finns express that subtly and sometimes settle for being content.

Not expressing your ambitions can hinder your career if managers believe you are not interested in opportunities. That’s a pity. It’s important to be open and I would like the global community to have a deeper understanding of how different cultures approach dialogue.

Was there a specific time that you realised this lesson?

During one-to-ones with global groups, I became aware of the differences in communication and teamwork. For example, when working with someone from Northern Finland, after you’ve asked a question, it’s important to just stop, listen and refrain from asking more questions while they’re answering, otherwise it could create problems in the discussion and the speaker will most likely stop talking.

In the UK, people are happy for you to throw in more questions as you go, and I found in India it differs again in the way colleagues communicate. Overall, learning about cultures and getting to know your team individually is important.

What contribution has that ability to express yourself made to your success?

It has made a difference as having an open dialogue builds trust. An important part of my role is to grow employees, so it has definitely contributed there. As a leader today, you can't fully separate personal life from business, unlike in earlier times.

Now, it is more likely that you share information, not only general personal information on family status but also mental health issues, sexual orientation etc. To a large extent, I think this is a very positive development. I have had experiences where a team member had a partner experiencing mental illness. I noticed that something was not quite right , so I took her aside to talk. She was very relieved that she didn’t have to keep it to herself, allowing me to better reassess the situation and find solutions. As a large company, we can offer very good support to our employees if there is an open dialogue.

How do you foster a positive work environment during challenging times?

I am currently working on the ‘boxed-in’ processes, legal activities, consolidations, and reporting as well as one-time items such as M&A integrations, entity valuation, tax audits etc. So, to me, the first thing is to be clear on what’s important, the deliverables and deadlines for routine tasks. When that’s clear to everyone the organisation can be much more focused and happier.

The ambition is to reduce stress within the team and management by taking ownership and securing delivery on time. We plan all the deliveries for the coming year and communicate this to the team for each finance manager to incorporate this into his/her work schedule and team. Certain extra important or complicated processes are followed weekly, and progress is displayed in all-hands finance meetings to ensure that we do not have any loose ends. We harmonize tools, processes, and templates down to details and expect that you follow the instructions. Now, how does this make me happy, you might ask. Well, I think it releases so much potential for developing yourself or your team/processes, creating a positive upward spiral.

When a team member isn’t delivering, I try to be open and direct about that in a 1:1 setting. In one such case, in a Nordics market, the person responsible for statutory reporting wasn’t performing well. Initially, they were, of course, disappointed to receive negative feedback but, eventually, agreed the role was a poor fit and moved to a different one where they’re much happier. Communication needs to be open and transparent in both positive and negative situations.

This also helps your team with long-term planning. They should have visibility of what they will be doing and the ability to plan time with their families or vacations - sometimes they are happy to work on the weekends if necessary and take Monday off instead.

Do you have a strategy for finding balance and reducing stress while maintaining productivity?

The main thing is the long-term planning. When something doesn’t work, you need an organisation to take care of the problem and make sure it doesn’t reappear. Then a plan to clearly communicate that structure and solve problems. Automate as much as possible.

My approach to reducing stress in the workplace involves reducing manual work as much as possible, as that’s where you find errors and risks of fraudulent behaviour.

Thinking back to the best manager you’ve worked for, what would you say you appreciated or enjoyed about their management style?

That for me was the former CEO of Capgemini Nordic. He was social, fun, and generally a nice person. It’s important to have someone who allows you to deliver and put the right amount of pressure on you simultaneously. When you feel needed and feel valued, you tend to give more. We had fun and complemented each other.

Do you have any advice on how people could build a better relationship with their manager?

Much of it has to be driven by your own approach. Be open about what you want and help them understand what you’re looking for. In cases where things don’t work out or you feel left out, it’s essential to address that in a 1:1 with the manager. Secondly, it is important to understand your manager’s priorities and his/her expectations of you.

The current group CEO of our company was previously our group CFO. He had high weight and brought huge experience to the table, so everyone was a little bit nervous to engage him. Our Paris office has a big round table. When he sat in the middle, the chairs on either side of him remained empty in the beginning – almost like school kids with a new headmaster!

But he was very clear on what needed to be delivered and was very ‘yes or no’. He didn’t judge any questions to be silly and soon enough the chairs next to him were occupied first. Building a relationship based on dialogue helps you reach that same harmony. Try to understand each other's needs.

Is there a memorable moment in your career that stands out?

There are so many different moments, not just one, but for me it’s the feeling of belonging, driving change and meeting people that is what stands out. I feel really blessed, travelling around the world, meeting smart and interesting people.

In a previous conversation, you spoke about a fun ski trip with the CEO and his deputy. Can you tell us more?

At the start of my career, I actively took on difficult situations to get into the heat and solve issues. The leader of a company we’d acquired requested a conference in Finnish Lapland and I was asked to go skiing with one of the CEO’s trusted deputies. We had a great afternoon and got on well, then the next day he was promoted to CEO! This meant he and I would build the new strategy together for a significant business unit that had been making an annual loss of €10 million - within the year it was making black figures and became one of the company’s most profitable units. I was glad we had the opportunity to bond beforehand. Hitting it off personally undoubtedly contributed to that success.

What would you say is the secret to building a strong network?

Be curious. My network is wide as I enjoy forming relationships with diverse people, learning more about their lives, careers, and backgrounds. Having a good relationship with your manager will help. Networking is strategically important for your career, but it can also be fun and rewarding.

What’s your advice for a job seeker looking to stand out in the market?

To have a sense of humour. I’m currently recruiting for a role that is quite narrow, a lot of people have the same CV, background, experiences etc. A little humour helps you cut through and differentiate. Of course, you shouldn’t enter the interview with a clown mask but be yourself. Meeting the real person is fun and makes for an enjoyable workplace.

Also, be ambitious but keep things realistic. I’ve received a high school graduate application for a Tax Manager position once. Don’t waste time if there’s a very slim chance of success…

How did you establish your career development plan and how can people follow your footsteps?

I soon realised I wanted to be a business controller, so I moved consistently in that direction and kept an open dialogue with my manager about my ambitions. When a position became open, he suggested I apply. I experienced ‘imposter syndrome’ for awhile, exposed to different challenges including managing a team for the first time. Overall, it was rewarding, fun and a good development opportunity.

Mentoring is also something that can bring value. Not only being mentored but as a mentor – often you learn through these dialogues, and you realise how different persons perceive things.

Management training is also something which I recommend strongly.

Do you have any tips for achieving a better work-life balance?

At the beginning of your career, work-life balance is more difficult to achieve. But, as with everything else, it is a decision you must make yourself and in collaboration with persons around you. If you decide to take a highly exposed 18 hours a day job, you will experience challenges with work-life balance, but it could be right for you at a certain stage in your life.

Secondly, be transparent with your partner, manager, and team. I have team members who are open about that “At this stage of my life, I’ll work 8 hours and that’s it – I secure my deliveries, but I do not go to after-work activities or events , I want to be with my kids.” As a manager, I know that this is a person I cannot put on a time-critical DD project, but a stable person to deliver routine tasks and feel content with this. Naturally, I also need to look at long-term career paths for these individuals but as for now, it might be the best for all.

Also, some people want to create an image of themselves as always busy and stressed, suggesting that the company depends on them. As a manager, it's important to be aware of this behaviour. Often, these individuals are insecure and require support.

My experience is that it is not the work that makes people burn out, it is often a combination of several personal challenges or life-changing experiences. As a manager, you are responsible for offering support and finding the right person for the role. However, it is always your responsibility to take ownership of your work-life balance. You should have a discussion with your manager but if it doesn’t work you have to make changes.

What’s your advice for those wanting to pivot into a different industry or discipline?

My career has been IT-focussed, but across many different industries including retail and energy. All businesses have their challenges and opportunities; it’s understanding the drivers of the business that provides insight into where you might contribute. I moved into the retail business after a lot of deep analysis; when I first entered a meeting and explained the opportunities as I saw them, it led to a dialogue.

What are some of the key drivers for success at Capgemini?

Firstly, understand the global culture of communication, the does and don’ts. I would say Capgemini is a very fact-based organisation. When reporting to the group I have realised that they are more detail-orientated than you might be used to. So ensure that you have covered the bases, get the full understanding and based your analyses on facts. Even if you think that you're covering all the angles with thorough analysis, you will always receive at least a couple of questions back. Their thoroughness is a strength and prevents potential errors.

The second thing is to understand the culture; get to know the right people, be visible and ensure that you deliver. That will always pay dividends.

Is there a book or podcast you’d recommend?

I read a lot as it’s good for the brain; everything more or less but I prefer popular science books. I would recommend Sapiens or Homo Deus by Yuval Noah Harari. And if you have not read Daniel Kahneman’s Thinking, Fast and Slow, it’s a must. You should also read stories, novels and fiction to widen your scope. This summer I read among others the Swedish debutant autobiography “Djävla Karlar” – so well written and funny.

What is your favourite quote and why?

“The best way to win a war is to not fight the war.”

When my daughter was in her teens we had a number of verbal disagreements, I read a book called Nonviolent Communication, which is about removing confrontation from dialogue, written by an American psychologist, Marshall Rosenberg. Winning an argument without fighting is rewarding and that’s something I have learned and developed. Asking for and considering the opposing point of view to continue the dialogue is rewarding.

EMEA Recruitment partners with a charity called Operation Smile. What was the last thing that made you smile?

I was in a recruitment situation where one of the recruiters made me laugh in a meeting. The guy got the job!

Thank you to Björn Sjögerås for speaking to Hannah Gibson, Senior Consultant at EMEA Recruitment.

Views and opinions contained within our Executive Interviews are those of the interviewee and not views shared by EMEA Recruitment. 

Nurten Ozbas is an International Tax Director for EMEA at Uber, based in Amsterdam. Before joining Uber nine-and-half years ago, she was employed by Big 4 accounting firm, PricewaterhouseCoopers (PwC).

Nurten shares an insight into Uber’s innovative company culture, mission, and growth journey, along with her most memorable career moments and achievements.

What excites you about working for Uber?

I have worked at Uber for over nine years, and what still excites me is the impact we are making. Our mission is to reimagine the way the world moves by making travel more efficient, more accessible, and more magical. We get the chance to make the world a better place every day - it’s a company that has forever changed the world.

From a Tax perspective, we get to build and look ahead. Since the inception of its operations, Uber has navigated through a labyrinth of challenges posed by the rapid introduction of various tax changes and legislations impacting digital companies like Uber. The dynamic tax (and regulatory) landscape has required us to be agile and resilient.

While our footprint has certainly expanded over the years, I'm just as excited about our mission as I was when I joined. I knew Uber was going to be a very cool company, even though we were very small back then (in 2015).

Uber has become such an important part of people's lives, including mine. You can really see the impact Uber is making, especially in markets like the Middle East and Sub-Saharan Africa, where people rely on dependable transportation. When I travel, I can't imagine not using Uber and I even tell my friends and family to download the app and try it.

During one of my first trips to South Africa, I really got to see how much of an impact we're making. There was a South African driver whose gratitude for the app really touched me. Uber allowed him to drive on a part-time basis between jobs to provide for his family. He said, “When you return to the Netherlands, can you please thank the team on my behalf?” I thought, wow, I'm just part of the Finance team, not the engineering team who built the app.

What are the key drivers to success in Uber that you watch out for the most?

Assuming that people have the required technical skills to join the Tax team, I would say it's important to be curious. Ask a lot of questions and find out what drives those people coming to you with their Tax questions. The more you ask, the more knowledge you gain, helping you connect and advise better – and, of course, have fun while doing it all.

At Uber, we always say you need to be comfortable with being uncomfortable. When I was hired, that was something my hiring manager told me, as growth happens when you step out of your comfort zone, embrace challenges, and face uncertainty.

Uber will definitely challenge you, and - when I look back - I realised I needed to step out of my comfort zone and take on projects outside my area of expertise, pushing me to grow. We're looking for those willing to deal with a very steep learning curve and embrace that.

Can you describe the culture at Uber?

Ambitious, fast-paced, and incredibly diverse.

Not only do we all come from different cultural backgrounds, but each of us brings different working styles and unique contributions. The Tax team alone already represents 14 nationalities, but this also applies to many other teams at Uber. I truly believe diversity is a powerful thing.

What was the most unexpected lesson you learned in your career so far?

I have many. However, the biggest lesson would be to not let fear hold me back - use it to push you forward. When I look at my life, the moments that taught me the most and shaped me as a person and a professional were those when I faced uncertainty and felt slightly nervous.

You’ll learn a lot if you push yourself into the unknown and try new things, new projects, and companies where you don’t feel entirely comfortable.

Is there a specific time that you look back on or a certain occasion that stood out as a turning point for you?

Yes, there are three moments.

First, when I was working at PwC, I did something that most people wouldn’t have considered at the time. After a few years, I told one of the partners that I really wanted to travel before I'm 30. Everyone was like, “Okay, one day…” Little did they know, that day would come much sooner than they ever imagined. So, I took unpaid leave, which was uncommon back then. People (at work and outside work) questioned my decision and wondered if there would still be a job when I returned. But I felt a strong urge to travel and decided to do it.

I went to the Antarctic, because I just woke up and thought, why not? I travelled for four months, which was a really cool experience and shaped me as a person. I got to explore all these new places and meet very exciting people.

When I got back, it was business as usual, so you should never feel insecure or worry about what your future will look like in four months. If you are confident that everything will work out, it will.

The second turning point in my life was my secondment to Turkey. I was asked if I was willing to set up a Dutch desk in Istanbul. I was the first person to go from the Netherlands. I felt uncomfortable, and although I do have a Turkish background, my Turkish is not great. However, I thought, I’m just going to do it, as I had nothing to lose; if it doesn't work out, I will return to PwC Amsterdam.

I really loved it, and it taught me a lot. You also get to build your network and understand the culture even better, including the working culture, while navigating cultural differences. When I came back from Turkey, I was a completely different person.

The third thing that changed me was joining Uber. People made me doubt it, telling me about the great future I could have at PwC, and asking if I wanted to continue focusing on the Turkish market after just returning from the secondment. But then Uber came along, and although I felt it was an uncertain time to join a small company, I knew I was just going to do it.

I know we touched on this, but is there a memorable moment or achievement that stands out for you during your career?

I would definitely say Uber’s IPO in May 2019. It was one of the largest in history.    

It was memorable for me, because we celebrated it with everyone in the office and around the globe. We felt so proud, because every team - whether you're part of the Finance team or any other team at Uber - felt like the hard work paid off and the world had noticed. I can hardly believe that Uber’s IPO was over five years ago. Time really flies, especially at Uber’s speed!    

What advice would you give to someone starting their career in Tax?

There was one particular piece of advice I received at PwC. One of the partners told me, “Don't be afraid to make mistakes, be afraid of not making any.”

I believe mistakes are a great way to learn and unlearn certain things. You gain a lot from even the silliest mistakes. I always tell people at Uber, “It's totally fine to make mistakes – just learn from them and move on. Don't let mistakes hold you back.”

What advice would you give to aspiring leaders and managers?

You're only as good as your team. Teamwork is a crucial part of any business, especially at Uber.

Are there any challenges you’ve faced or lessons you've learned when it comes to managing and leading a team?

It’s important to connect well and listen well. I’m mindful that everyone has different backgrounds, experiences, and their own working style.

You work with different types of people, and for everyone to work well together, they should be mindful that everyone works differently. That doesn’t mean that one style is better than the other one; we should be comfortable highlighting these differences and giving each other constructive feedback.

What's the secret to building a strong network?

My advice would be to make time for it. Also, don't try to impress, just be yourself.

What's your favourite quote or motto and why?

Everyone at Uber will know exactly which of our eight values I am going to pick, as it’s my favourite: Go get it. I have even included it in my email signature as a reminder to myself.

It means bringing the mindset of a champion, seeking out challenging opportunities, whether big or small, cutting through complexity, and just getting the work done. Show up with a can-do attitude, even if you feel as if the finish line is beyond reach. It’s my favourite value and I use it a lot in team meetings and emails.

For my personal life, I like the quote: “Love the life you live, live the life you love” by Bob Marley. It means love everything about your life - the ups, downs, and everything in between. Be grateful for what you have and where you are right now. This quote really relates to me.

What are the current recruitment challenges that you face?

We want to attract, hire, and retain the best and most diverse group of people in the world. In the past, I would only focus on very impressive resumes - does this person have the right experience and the skillset to join the team? But now, I focus more on finding people with the right attitudes and mindsets to take on company challenges.

If you look at our current employees, we’re here because we deeply believe in Uber's mission. That sense of purpose is what unites us, regardless of the team we are in. We also want to hire those who share this passion.

The challenge I sometimes face is navigating through the impressive resumes we receive to select the right people.

How do you separate the resumes from the people? Is there anything that you do specifically, or is it just how they come across in interviews?

We invite team members from different levels and backgrounds to a panel to conduct several rounds of interviews. I mainly focus on whether the candidate is the right fit. I look at how eager they are and how comfortable they are with not knowing what they're going to do.

For example, you could be hired for a specific region, but, in a year’s time, you could be doing something totally different. If that makes you nervous, then you probably aren’t quite the right fit. But, if that excites you, then Uber's going to be an exciting company to work for.

We sometimes invite people to come over for lunch and see the office in person, because we want people to know what they're signing up for. It's not only us assessing that person and whether they're the right fit, but that person also needs to have the same feeling: Do I want to be part of this team? Do I want to work for this hiring manager?

What does life look like for you outside the office?

I enjoy spending time with friends and family. I have two boys, so they keep me busy; most of the time I'm playing soccer and tennis or going to a playground with them.

I haven’t lost my urge to travel; in fact, my wanderlust is as strong as ever. So, whenever there’s a school break, we always try to go somewhere with the kids, allowing us to explore new places.

Thank you to Nurten for speaking to Kieran Hayes, Recruitment Consultant in our Finance & Accountancy recruitment team in the Netherlands.

Views and opinions contained within our Executive Interviews are those of the interviewee and not views shared by EMEA Recruitment. 

Willemein van der Wal is the Founder of Elevate Coaching & HR Consulting. She provides executive career coaching, enabling her clients to achieve their ambitions, as well as HR consulting services with a modern and results-focused approach.

Previously VP People & Culture at Sircle Collection in Amsterdam, Willemein has extensive international HR experience leading the People function in the Netherlands and Canada.

Can you share a high-level overview of your career to date?

I have worked in HR for most of my career. After falling into it unexpectedly, I ended up loving it. I’ve gone back and forth between leading the overall HR function and focusing on culture, leadership development, and training.

I’ve always had a passion for culture, employee engagement, leadership, development, and training. I’ve worked in many different industries, initially in Vancouver (Canada), before I got homesick and returned to the Netherlands nine years ago.

This year, I launched Elevate HR Consulting and Coaching to support leaders as they transition into new roles through what I call Accelerated Integration. I work with leaders to create a 90-day plan to enable them to become a fully functioning and contributing member of the team as quickly and smoothly as possible. I assist them to establish their elevator speech introduction, and to assess the culture, the team, and to determine their priorities for the first 90 days. This elevates their confidence and their ability to create impact and achieve early wins.

I also do HR consulting and training in the areas of culture building, employee engagement, leadership development, and training. Recently, I ran a well-received workshop on giving and receiving feedback.

And, finally, I have a coaching practice to help people with their job search, career development, and to enhance their leadership skills.

What's particularly rewarding in your role?

Enabling people to do great work and become their best selves. Culture, employee engagement, and training feed into that to support their growth. To me, the purpose of HR is to lead through values, rather than policies, rules, and regulations.

Thinking back to your best manager, what about that person’s management style made them so effective for you?

I’ve been lucky to have a few good managers. A common factor was they saw my potential for magic. They believed in me, helped me to leverage my strengths, and championed my successes.

When you work for someone like that, it creates trust and this, in turn, makes you more open to receiving and acting on constructive feedback. They gave me the overall vision and empowered me with the freedom to figure things out myself. Of course, there was communication, but no micromanaging.

Is there a memorable moment that stands out from your career?

When I worked at Intrawest, a Canadian travel and leisure company, we created an amazing leadership development programme, all in-house. We developed a leadership model through incredible internal collaboration. We created a 360-degree feedback process based on that model, and supported the development of our people with a training programme and numerous resources, including a development guide.

The training programme was facilitated by leaders from different functions across the organisation and it was amazing to work together. It received very positive feedback and great results; that is a real highlight for me.

How do you expect leadership roles and skillsets to change as technology advances?

I believe some aspects of leadership - such as establishing a vision and inspiring colleagues to deliver on it - will remain the same, as well as having self-awareness and conscious leadership. Empathy and resilience continue to be important in today’s workplace, because things are indeed changing so rapidly.

It will become even more important to be curious, open to continuous learning, and creative in how we respond to change and leverage technological advances.

The ways to use AI to support leaders and HR teams is evolving very rapidly. I have seen some interesting tools to enhance recruiting and also to use AI for predictive analytics.

Do you have any advice for those seeking to build a strong network?

Most young people don’t enjoy networking - and I didn’t either earlier in my career. However, years ago, I came across a book called Work the Pond! by Gayle Hallgren and Judy Thomson. They introduced me to the concept of positive networking.

Effective networking is based on what you can do for someone else, and this idea took away the pressure of my original perception that it was insincere and self-centred. It enabled me to be more deliberate in attending events and initiating conversations with people.

I was at a recent networking event with a colleague, and we were just standing next to each other catching up, and we realised that is not what we should be doing at such an event. So, we both made a deliberate effort to talk to a couple of new people and I ended up making a great business connection.

My advice would be to be genuinely curious about others and their interests, share information, make connections for people in your network, and support each other's goals.

Think of two or three questions to ask people before attending networking events.

Also, I am not shy about inviting people for coffee – and I’m always pleasantly surprised that most people say yes.

What do you do outside of work to switch off and relax?

I am a huge foodie, so I love to cook, bake, and try new restaurants - I have actually flown to different cities in Europe to go to specific special restaurants.

To make up for that, I am active and work out six mornings a week doing weights, cardio, and high-intensity interval training. I have a race bike, which I enjoy, and I love to go to Italy and ride my bike, eat pasta, and drink wine!

Is there a meal that stands out as your favourite?

In January 2020, just before Covid, we were lucky enough to snag a reservation at Noma, which was a once-in-a-lifetime experience. It was everything I expected it to be. We were welcomed in a greenhouse with a warm drink, and then walked to the restaurant. We were served 21 stunningly beautiful courses and six wine pairings. It was spectacular - the flavours were unbelievable, each course was a piece of art, and the service was outstanding. It will be hard to top that experience!

Thank you to Willemein for speaking to Katie Insley, Director in our Human Resources recruitment team in the Netherlands. 

Views and opinions contained within our Executive Interviews are those of the interviewee and not views shared by EMEA Recruitment. 

Yolanda Rivero is a Procurement professional specializing in Digital Transformation. She has been with PepsiCo, a multi-national food and beverage corporation, for over 21 years, where she has led the global implementation of digital procurement tools, enhancing spend visibility and strategic sourcing. 

What was the best or worst interview experience you've ever had?

Luckily, I haven’t had many bad experiences. In cases where I was offered the position, what made them good interviews was the focus on my soft skills. They were truly bi-directional conversations with a real effort to understand each other.

I also felt very comfortable asking questions. It is always good to gain an understanding of what they need, and what they want. It's important to have an open conversation to understand the person, rather than focus only on the CV.

What sustainability challenges have you or your organization, including previous employers, faced?

In my opinion, sustainability presents many challenges. One of the most important examples would be fulfilling regulation and sustainability goals in a cost-saving environment. At some point, to find the right balance, you need to do a trade-off.

In many cases, achieving sustainability goals involves investment, either buying new machinery or doing things differently, which can easily go against your productivity objective. You need to understand exactly what to sacrifice to achieve your goals.

Another challenge is how you measure that. How can you prove that you’re achieving your sustainability goals in compliance with regulations? You need to have accurate data, and sustainability is relatively new, so there isn’t a lot of historical data to do this reliably.

I think the last challenge is the changes in globalization for corporate and international companies. Regulations differ, for instance; you have local, country, European, others in different continents, and market dealings, etc. They change very often, requiring you to continuously adjust your processes to maintain compliance.

In global organizations, it must be challenging to have a set strategy across the board, because regulations differ from continent to continent.

Exactly. The law today may change in five years, because they've realized that there's something new that they need to include, requiring you to adapt. It's also a constant adoption of tools and how you approach the achievement of your goals.

In your opinion, what are the most underrated skills or qualities in Procurement?

I think having diverse backgrounds and experiences is sometimes seen as an obstacle, rather than a strength. Of course, you need to know the job and perform in the role and within those functions. But, in Procurement, what makes it so rich is the exposure to many cross-functional teams; you collaborate with R&D, Marketing, Supply Chain, and Legal.

I believe it's very important to have people from different backgrounds and experiences to be able to understand others. That leads us to increasing the focus on certain skills and embracing diverse backgrounds, rather than having very specific Procurement experience.

The more you understand how something impacts others, the quicker you can solve the problem, because you can go beyond the surface. For example, when you have a supply issue and you have supply experience, you know how important it is to stop the production line or how difficult it is to change shifts or rearrange the production schedule.

You could think back on the best way to tackle the issue, allowing you to get others on board with your thinking, as you can empathize with the situation and thoroughly understand the impact of your decisions on other functions.  

If you were to think back to the best manager you've ever worked for, what did you like about their management style?

I've been extremely lucky and grateful to have very good managers throughout my career. For me, what makes them the best is having the ability to learn from them. That could be learning about the function, negotiations, communication, or other skills.

Additionally, it’s important to have the ability to mirror your manager and improve yourself. Those managers were able to challenge me constructively and gave me the motivation to go beyond my current capabilities. In all cases, they showed genuine interest in helping me grow and succeed.

Is that something you've taken forward when managing people?

Absolutely. If it’s something you’d like to receive, you should give it, too.

Also, as a manager, it’s important to adapt. Ultimately, you are dealing with people, so you need to understand the communication required for each person. I love to make my team grow and try to get the best out of them.

But maybe not everyone wants to grow, so it’s important to recognize that not everyone wants what you want for them. You must take the time to know your team and hear what they want.

In global organizations in Switzerland, you're often managing diverse teams of people based all over the world, or even in one office. So, there are certain skills that you need to have from a communication perspective.

Absolutely. We had a tool named Culture Wizard that helps you to understand cultural differences, for instance, how to approach negotiation in a different country.

I try to learn about others and how they interpret silence or other types of communication. Something in your country may seem very funny, but in others, it's not so funny. You need to understand your team’s cultural background and the differences and be able to address that, as well.

How can a jobseeker stand out in the current market?

It's complex. Nowadays, knowing how to stand out in any field becomes the search for the holy grail.

On LinkedIn, you can find endless tips and tricks everywhere. But, in my opinion, it can become overwhelming and have the opposite effect, because everybody - with their best intentions - explains how you should communicate, what you have to say or not say. In the end, you’re being told so many things.

I believe the most important thing is to identify what makes you unique, because everybody has their own story. You need to communicate yours effectively, and that requires preparation and confidence. That’s what makes you stand out in the current market, on top of having good knowledge of the job.

Something that is taken for granted is having a good attitude and self-confidence.

Are there any books or podcasts that you'd recommend to our network?

I always try to get a balance between learning more about Procurement, market innovation, and new market trends. But, as I said before, certain skills are important, like communication, emotional intelligence, and soft skills in general. 

I'd recommend the Art of Procurement podcast. Many of my Procurement colleagues have been interviewed on it, too. It’s very good if you want to follow what’s currently cooking in Procurement and who the key players are.

I also follow a German podcast, because it helps me keep my business German fresh, called Werte & Hebel, which is also focused on Procurement.

Lastly, a Spanish podcast named Hablas o impactas, hosted by a storytelling and public speaking professional named Aurora Michavila, which is great for learning how to do presentations, and improve your communication and business relationships.

Thank you to Yolanda for speaking to George Weemes, Associate Director in our Procurement & Supply Chain recruitment team in Switzerland.

Views and opinions contained within our Executive Interviews are those of the interviewee and not views shared by EMEA Recruitment.