Bram Lybaert is the FP&A Director Europe at Ecolab in Zurich. He has been with the business for over six-and-a-half years, having previously spent more than four years at Kellogg’s and almost eight years with Procter & Gamble.

How did you get into ultra trail running and can you share your best running experience?

I got into running by chance. I wasn't really a runner until I saw an opportunity to run the New York Marathon. It was a company that was going to acquire Pringles, and they were a sponsor of the New York Marathon. One day, I got an email titled: “Who wants to go and run the marathon in New York?”

I had never run more than ten kilometres in my life, but the attraction of running the New York Marathon inspired my colleague Garreth and myself to go for it. It was a great experience; if you ever can run the marathon in New York, I strongly recommend to do so.

I also like mountains, do a lot of mountain sports. And, once I ran the marathon, I started combining running and mountains, and that is how I got into trail running.

Do you have any advice for anyone who would like to start running?

I'm not a personal coach, but I believe it is possible for anybody to train for a 10k, half marathon or a marathon. I’m absolutely convinced. Start step by step. That can be running a kilometre or a mile and then build from there. Don't do nothing and then go running 20 miles - that will be a very hard and painful experience.

Then it is about personal operational discipline. The most difficult part of running is putting your shoes and shirt on; once you've done that, you go running. That's my tip: just put on your shoes and your sports clothes.

The great thing about trail running is that it sucks you in – very similar to other endurance sports, like marathons and triathlons. From there, it sort of escalated in terms of distance and difficulty - it is addictive, in a way. You realise once you start running longer distances that there are no limits. The limit is what you put on yourself - it's a mental limit.

The body can take quite a lot of things. Of course, you need to prepare, train, have the right material, you need to feed yourself correctly, etc. You learn along the way what works, what doesn't work, and it can be different for everybody.

And this applies to your work life as well; it is a confidence builder. You realise there is no true limit in life, only the limits you set for yourself, which can apply to anything you do in your life; it's not limited to sports. In that sense, it's an eye opener and it's something that can help you succeed in other aspects of your life.

We're going to move on to your passion for wine. What’s the best piece of advice you could give me about wine?

Try different things. If you're interested in the subject, there are many courses available. If you are passionate, I can recommend WSET (Wine, Spirits, and Education Trust). Great education, for all levels.

What I like in any subject that interests me - whether it's wine, sports, or a subject like stock markets or financial planning and analysis - is to get the theory behind it and see if what I'm doing is in line or is different. That's one way I improve myself or learn more about a subject I like. Obviously, the condition is that it is a passion or a subject of strong interest.

Why did you join Finance?

I joined Finance because I figured you need a Finance person everywhere. Regardless of which operation you’re in, you're going to need somebody to count the money - to put it very simply. So, it is also a profession that will allow you to see all aspects of a company.

How did you arrive at that thought?

I think it developed during my time at university. I studied Economics, and a master's in Banking and Finance, because I quite like investing, stock markets, etc. I thought, let me try a bank. I did do a three-month project in a bank as part of my studies, at which point I figured out, no, the bank is not for me.

I am a bit older, so this was before the 2008-2009 financial crisis. I was in a Trading department, and it was full of PhDs in Physics and Nuclear Engineering. I didn't understand a word of what these people were telling me, and it all felt very artificial - there was no substance behind it. I felt quite uncomfortable with it, and quickly concluded a bank was not for me. I did like the Finance aspect and something more tangible, so this is how I ended up in P&G.

I wanted it to be a multi-national, because another criteria was to not be stuck in Belgium. Again, this comes from my university experience, and - specifically - the Erasmus exchange program, spending six months in a private college in the US. I very much liked this, and I would recommend going abroad early in your studies or career.

How did you adapt when you moved from each of these countries?

Within Europe, we’re not so materially different from a cultural aspect, even though you might think so. For example, if you're in Belgium and you go to Italy or Poland, you might think it's very different, but truly we all operate in very similar ways, and the differences are small.

A great part of that is just listening and understanding how things work in a different place and being open to that. You don't always realise that for yourself, because you have been brought up in a certain system, culture, way of working and thinking. So, when you arrive somewhere new, you might just continue, and you don't realise that some of the stuff you're doing is actually very different from how people in that other place, country or culture would do it.

This is the richness of an experience of going somewhere else. You learn some of the stuff that you might have thought to be universal is only true for your very small part of the world where you live. It’s like, okay, we’ve done it here this way for the last 50 years, but why does it have to be like that? Sometimes, in other places, they do it differently and it works better. A life lesson learned.

By far, the most difficult move was from Europe to Singapore, because the differences are much bigger. I naively thought that having worked in Europe, the Middle East and Africa that I had seen a great diversity already, and that I would be able to adapt easily, but the cultural shock was significant.

What was the thing that stood out to you most?

I developed a certain way of working in Europe that I applied there without adjustment. It is a quite direct way of working. I quickly realized that most of my Asian colleagues were much more relationship oriented. So, before you actually can achieve something, you have to get to know the person in much more detail than you would in most European cultures. That was a challenge, even more so in COVID times.

Luckily, the first nine months I was there without COVID, so I could travel to a lot of places, which is absolutely needed, and is a must if you are to go about and work with colleagues.

I came back to Europe with a different style than when I went there. I spend much more time trying to understand people on a personal level than I did before.

Is it quite easy to transition from industry to industry?

I believe Finance is needed everywhere and most companies have a Finance function – some still limit this to Accounting, a missed opportunity, I would say, in that case. Most of the time, we do similar things. Whether you work in an IT company, a chemicals company, an FMCG company, the basics are the same.

So, I generally found it easy to transition between companies and roles. Of course, there are very specialised roles or industries - like Treasury or Tax, or going into the pharma industry - but those are exceptions, and if you are eager to learn and work hard, this can be overcome, as well.

What is your secret to building a strong network and maintaining your international network?

It is about being open, curious and interested in people. I love meeting new people and learning about new perspectives, so it's not so difficult. It's easier in a place like Singapore than in a small place like Schaffhausen, but the concept is the same. I like this saying: “You have two ears and one mouth, so use it in proportion” - not always easy to apply in practice, but good to keep in mind.

Then, I network or connect with people in the areas I'm interested in. I do have a certain focus to it, and luck. You can force a little bit of your luck. For example, if you want to work in a certain company or country, it might make sense to join some networks where you have a high probability of meeting those people that do what you're interested in. So, I try to do that; it doesn't always work.

My key networks come from my employers - P&G, Kellogg's - and then the schools that I’ve been at or university. In Singpore, I attended a master in INSEAD - a great network. It's part of the business model, so in a way you pay for it, so you've got to use it. It's interesting how some of these things work because you are part of something; the access is much easier to certain people. It might not feel 100% fair, but it is how human networks operate.

Maximise your effort and time; today, it is extremely easy to connect, because we have all the technology to connect with anybody in the world. So, maintaining a relationship is more a question of you putting in the time and effort than anything else. There is no excuse not to do it.

I also like to have a little board of directors, or rather friends and/or mentors. There are a few people that I have met over the years - some date back from school, university, P&G – four, five, six people I know and trust. I can connect with them at any point in time. I might not talk to them for a year, but if I have a problem, a question, a doubt, and I want to get their opinion, they're the ones I go to. They are completely unbiased, because they don't work in my company, they don't do my job, they are detached from my situation, so they can give me completely independent advice.

Do you have anyone that you are personally mentoring?

Yes, mainly work related. There are many informal relationships without it being spelled out that I'm the mentor and they’re my mentee. Within my team, I take the time to coach them without it being an explicit mentor/mentee relationship, which ideally goes outside of your direct reports or people you work with. So, informally I do, but I don't have it written down in the system.

What is the personal highlight of your career so far?

In general, the highest reward is when you help develop people and then you see them succeed. The direct reward is to see them succeed and contribute to your team’s success.

An even greater reward is when you see them continue to develop and, one day, they might be your boss, or they might have a great opportunity somewhere else and you're like, “I knew that this person was going to make it, I'm happy I could contribute a little bit to their success.” That really gives me a kick.

And then, don’t forget, you contributed to their development, so it's not that they owe you something, but they will always be part of your network, and happy to help you.

If you could go back and give your younger self some career advice, what would it be?

For myself, being a more rational and data-oriented person, it is not to forget about the softer side of things, cultivate the EQ [emotional intelligence], invest in it. This can be done in many ways, through coaches, mentors, training, education, etc.

Feedback is a gift - don't ignore it, because this allows you to grow. Listening is another piece of advice. I probably talked too much for a long time and I didn't listen enough, but – again - you learn, so don’t be too harsh on yourself.

When I had a culture shock in Singapore, I thought: How am I going to overcome this? What can I do? You learn by experiences, but also reach out for help, get a coach, talk to your manager. I found an amazing course, the Executive Master of Change, at INSEAD, which massively increased my – rather low – EQ.

I like this quote from T.S. Eliot: “Only those who will risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go.” So, take a risk. What is the worst that can go wrong? Do you have a plan B and a plan C in case it goes wrong? We're in Finance, so we do calculated risk taking - we don't just jump off a building, but, my advice? Do take the risk.

The learning was the biggest where something completely unexpected happened or some opportunity came out of nowhere – assess it, but do not be afraid to go for it. I think those are the moments where you can really learn something and even more when you fail.

What's the most surprising thing that's happened in your career?

The most surprising thing that happened was when I was in P&G, the last job I had. I was part of the Pringles team - you surely love those chips? I knew very well this was a smaller, less strategic division. So, you’re taking a risk, because those big companies are run a little bit like funds - if you underperform, one day, something might happen.

Sure enough, seven months after joining, Pringles was sold to another company. For many people, it was a big surprise. When something hits you that you don't expect, behaviour can be erratic. To myself, I said, “Okay, what's the worst that can happen? The minuses. What can I potentially take out of this? The plusses. Net, it looks like there are some great opportunities in this whole event.”

Most people in the Finance team, which was very small, didn't want to jump, because they – logically - said, “I don't want to leave P&G, it's a great company, etc.” Some had a choice; others – like me - didn't have a choice. I ended up becoming the manager of the new Finance team and this proved to be a great career opportunity.

The learning curve from it was amazing. I learned so many things. It was forced upon me in a way, but then it’s how you react to it. Do you see it as something negative and you only see the downsides, or do you embrace it and say, “This can be great and I’m going to decide to see the positive things of this,”? It's a conscious decision; you can see it either way.

I see it with other people, as well - the ones who approached it in a positive way are the ones who benefited the most from this change and probably learned the most from it. People tend to worry too much about things they can't control. Key question: What can I control? For example, do you need to learn something new? Do you need to build a network of new people? How does it impact your career? Do you need to change something?

Those are all things you can decide for yourself, then try not to worry about all the other things that somebody has decided, something that you won't have much influence on. Try to focus on the stuff you can control yourself.

Being very active in transformations and change management, how do you first see your transformation changing the function of FP&A?

Changes are a given, so you better get ready for it and embrace it. I have this training I do about change management and embracing change, and the need to control what you can control. It is not a question if something will change, it’s just a matter of when exactly.

Technology is advancing a lot. Every company goes at their own pace; it depends on the complexity, the systems, culture. We work a lot on data lakes, Power BI, pulling and applying information to make better informed decisions. I feel sometimes it's coming a little bit slow, but we influence, we lead where we can and then see what happens. The key question always is: What's the objective? What's the value of it? It depends how your company sees the role of FP&A. Is it centrally steered, is it fully decentralized, is it considered the core of Finance or not? How does it tie to compensation?

It depends on your company culture. I have been to a couple of companies where they run the human forecasting process and the AI process, and once they saw that AI ran better than the human process, they got rid of the human process. I have seen cases where you have fully automated forecasts daily. Based on daily sales the full P&L [profit and loss] runs daily, and you can see your daily P&L automatically in the system.

Lots of things are possible; it's more a matter of how ready your management and key stakeholders are. It's not a question of how or what you can do - it's what do they want you to do, how do you see the process, and are they ready for it?

How do you keep up to date with what's going on digitally?

If you're interested, you go and delve into the subjects. Some members of my FP&A team are very interested in it, so I don't really need to ask them. They come up with ideas themselves, which I love. So, ideally, some of it comes from the team, and then some you drive yourself.

You need to enable your team. For instance, a few were interested in this space, so I said, “Let me find out how we can do some training." We found a great digital certification and online training. Then, a few wanted to go further, so then we found a trainer to do advanced Power BI, queries, programming, etc.

There are so many possibilities. It's just a matter of your personal interests and stimulating your team to go and explore it. Enjoy the journey!

Thank you to Bram for speaking to Lauren Eagar, Senior Consulant in our Finance & Accountancy recruitment division in Switzerland. 

Views and opinions contained within our Executive Interviews are those of the interviewee and not views shared by EMEA Recruitment.