How did you get to the level you are at? What great decisions do you believe you have made throughout your career and have you had to take risks?

I always think that it was helpful to start out at the bottom and, if you look at my resume, I started from the bottom doing accounts payable, accounts receivable, invoicing, logistics, etc. When I look around sometimes I see people who come straight from university and they go to directly into a medium level role - which is fine when you know what you are talking about. For myself though, I find it helpful to know the foundation, to know the ins and outs of procedures and different departments, so that when you get to a higher level you understand and know what you are talking about, instead of talking about a theory and not realising that practically things work differently to what you learn in books.

That has been pretty helpful for me. For example, I did accounts receivable ages ago, but at this moment in my position I am dealing a lot with coaching my team on how they should collect from our customers or handling contracts with our collections agency. I know what the basics are so don’t have to truly depend on what people are telling me and can be at the same level to work with them.

From the ‘taking risks’ side, I don’t think it is really about taking risks, but more about daring to step outside of your comfort zone. There are times when I have been asked to take up responsibilities where I don’t have the full expertise so I would jump in there, be honest about what I can and cannot do, but at the same time, using my own networks and speaking to the right people to obtain what I need. On the whole it is better to be honest about your knowledge gaps and ask for advice; people will be more inclined to help as they appreciate your knowledge and will be more willing to share with you and you can learn from them.

If you could go back and give your younger (graduate) self some career advice, what would it be?

Like I mentioned, I think it is about starting from the bottom and if you are good, you will be recognised and that is where you grow – not starting high and falling hard. It is really good to also not only look at your academic and technical knowledge but also your soft skills and that is what I normally focus on when I interview people.  Someone who doesn’t have the technical knowledge can learn, whereas someone who has poor soft skills or thinks they know it all, is harder to guide into the shape you need them to be.

When did you decide to explore a career in this area and why?

Well, that is funny, as I was doing very poor in my junior high school maths and I was really bad at numbers and would get -10 points out of 100. That was quite an achievement I would say! Somehow, I overcame it by doing it repetitively and working hard. Then I got to the point where I started to understand things and the door just opened for me. At university, I was doing different things like marketing and international management, but people around me always said I was going to end up in finance. In fact, we had a school reunion and had to guess what everyone was doing now and everyone guessed right about my being in Finance!

How important was it for you to develop relationships outside of your department for career development?

I think this is an interesting point, as this is something I would say to mid-level accountants as well. Some of them ask me why they are staying at mid-level and are not able to climb higher, even though they are good at numbers, etc. What is important is to learn from different areas of the company. The finance function comes up with the financial statements at the end of the year and that is a summary of what has happened in the company, but this is not just finance; we gather the information and provide it and the business uses this information. Therefore it is important to learn from each department, to do your networking and speak to different people. By opening your eyes to a bigger picture, you then can better understand the reasons why we are doing this and what messages are brought to the decision makers - becoming an internal consultant to the company.

I think external networking is also helpful. For example, even if your current company is not innovating through AI and automation, etc, you should put yourself out there and understand what is going on. If you are sitting in your own office and not looking outside, you are going to be left behind at some point, whereas if you know this even if you are not doing it, it will help you to position yourself when you need to make certain decisions. You will already have the information, know what to do and who to contact - I think that is pretty important as well.

I have been to different conferences and seminars and even though you don’t necessarily do business with these companies, you get to hear from your peers (another accountant, treasurer or someone from the business) what they are doing, you know what the options are and this helps you to be a better advisor. The secret to networking? Just talk to people; be humble and stay open-minded. Through my career, I have been able to use my networking for the benefit of the company. There are cases when other departments need someone whom I know and I can make a referral. Talking and listening to people, and observing what they are up to, can be quite important; instead of just sitting in the office and doing your own thing. I don’t blame finance professionals, as you get stuck in with your own work and it is stressful, however, we spent money and we don’t make money, so we have to find areas to save money!

What would you say is the most rewarding part of your role?

I think that would be the recognition and not just on the knowledge side; technical knowledge is something you can learn on the job and absorb, whereas if you think about myself for example, I have been recognised for the soft skills and cultural background. This is one of the reasons why I am in the position I am in. It does not necessarily mean making good money is the key, but it is the job satisfaction which you get when you get to resolve a huge issue or meet your targets, or even exceed the limitation you once thought you had. At the same time, there are a lot of factors involved in whether you are successful or not, e.g. if I have a KPI to meet a certain % of EBITDA, I can’t do that alone, but can advise stakeholders on what they need to watch out on, in order to help the business to meet the target. Team recognition is also the key.

Looking back through your established career, what would you identify as a personal highlight?

I think moving from being a specialist. I have been a financial specialist for quite some years and moved into management and shared service centre management before my current role as CFO. These were the big steps I have made – this is a recognition for my work. I have worked hard, however, sometimes doing just that doesn’t get you to where you want to be. Sometimes you need a bit of luck and some outside factors to get you where you are. I have been lucky too to be given the opportunity on exploring my career further.

What advice would you give to future aspiring leaders, and why?

Being able to inspire people and motivate them is to get the best out of them. If you have team of people, you can’t always have the same approach with each person. People have different characteristics and will have different visions. One person might want to stay and not change their role and in situations like this, you can’t keep pushing the person as they will not stay. You have to understand what they want, what they can do, what they cannot do and use that to develop your team. Listening to the team to make the best out of the team.

If you could give advice to Mid-Level accountants who are now thinking about their next career move, what would it be? 

I guess it would be about being open-minded and looking at the bigger picture - not only thinking ” This is the step I take, this person gives me a report and then I send it my manager”? and that’s it. It is important to understand what impact you have on the rest of the process and what you can do to help your manager to do their job right. By thinking out of the box, it will help you grow further.

Now that you have interviewed hundreds of accountants in Amsterdam, what interview advice could you give?

I would suggest not only talking about what you are able to do technically, but also, before you to go interview to think about what values and soft skills you have that can contribute to the company. So of course, you are not going to be so innovative when you first join a company – your softer skills may be to be a good listener, for example; observing and understanding what is happening; understanding the background before rushing into making changes. I have seen people who are very enthusiastic - especially the younger generation – and they come into a job and say all the processes are wrong and tend to think they can make a change immediately. The challenge here is that this creates a barrier for them as the people working there will feel threatened by their ideas. New blood to the company is always good, but first observe, understand and slowly apply your ideas to the company and work on that; being patient is important.

Overall, I have been quite lucky as I have had mentors in my career. I have had good relationships with my managers, who also give me technical advice and helped me to grow into the manager that I am. I’m lucky with this, as I know it is not always easy to have a good boss. Yesterday I was reading an article, about how it is more important to have a good boss than it is to work in a good company, which is a very valid point.

Who is your most inspirational person in business and why?

I have always had a manager whom I can reach out to. I’ve had managers who do not sit in the same office or country and in that situation you need to know when you should reach out and on what. I‘m definitely flexible and it is always give and take, so by giving something you get something back. Having these inspirational people in my life is a big plus – my former managers. Even now at this stage I still keep in touch with them and they give inspiring, wonderful and helpful advice.

What books / blogs are you currently reading? What book could you recommend to accountants who are wanting to progress? 

I have been reading the Michelle Obama’s book – I found this an interesting read; it is good to read about strong women, learning from them.  

Describe yourself in 3 words

I would say I’m a problem-solver (can be good and bad!), open-minded and empathetic (on the people around me and team members - at the end of the day they are people; not just machines that you turn on and off!).