You started your career in Finance and have moved into a more Technology led role. When did your passion for Technology and Transformation begin and why?

What excites you about working for Crowd Mobile?

Firstly, it’s the team - because we have a very young, energetic and diverse team. Also, being on the forefront of the online marketing and influencer industry, we have a team and company who are always thinking about the future and how to excite global customers and help them to make the right choices. This really motivates me. People are becoming more and more sophisticated in the way they make choices, they are more focused on the things they like and more selective. If we can help them make the right choice – I’m excited about this opportunity.
I also really enjoy the travel aspect of my role. I was in Australia recently for an industrial roadshow, which I attended with the CEO, and it was really exciting to see how people want to hear your story and get excited about it. It was a good chance for one-to-one meetings.

What does your organisation currently do to contribute towards the corporate social responsibility?

We are a small organisation and what we’re trying to work on is CSR which is meaningful to the company and the employees. For example, for us diversity is a very meaningful value and culture. We have over 30 different nationalities in our company and we’re definitely targeting a lot of efforts towards developing, growing and mentoring people. We started several training programmes recently, particularly mindful of the millennials in the business, to develop additional skills and grow further. Also, as management we are focused on progressing more females into senior positions.

As someone who has had many years working in Amsterdam, what changes have you seen to the employment market, particularly within finance?

It’s really competitive, especially in recent years. I’ve seen companies, especially the big and exciting ones, opening offices here because it’s a very innovative and very dynamic environment. In recent years Amsterdam has really become one of the best places to live and work in Europe. Sometimes I have found that the biggest struggle in recruitment is to find the right finance people with the right skillset, but also the right mindset - willing to learn and change. Adaptability is key. The bigger names can be more competitive and are attracting good candidates in finance and tech.

As a woman who is successfully working in a CFO role, what challenges have you faced throughout your career and how did you overcome them?

Mostly, I think, to be heard. It happened a lot in my career, both internally in the companies I’ve worked in and externally, that I’m the only female in the room. Also now during meetings, for example it happened a lot during the roadshow, that I’m sitting opposite male investors or analysts. So, for me, I think there’s a lot to be done in diversity in finance, particularly in senior positions and it comes from the fact that women don't like confrontation as much or to overpower anyone else’s opinion, so sometimes they are a bit more silent. I have tried to overcome this by contributing and giving my opinion. I think my advice would be to make sure that your message is heard – don’t be apologetic as there is a reason that you are at the meeting or have a seat at the table.

You have worked for both large and smaller businesses, what are the advantages and disadvantages of each?

The big organisations give you an opportunity to work on a larger scale and technically more complex or sophisticated projects, so this is where it’s usually interesting and challenging. The disadvantage can be that it can be more bureaucratic and layered and so decision-making processes can be much slower and more detached. In a small organisation you have the opportunity to make a huge impact; your reach is much broader and you can have an impact, but some small organisations struggle to scale and grow and this can be a disadvantage.

What would you say is the most rewarding part of your role?

Being able to build teams, the finance function, having an impact on the whole organisation and being relevant. I really enjoy things like that. I was lucky enough to do this in most of the companies I’ve worked for. I also really enjoy trying to open doors for young finance professionals, especially those who are female, to help them to grow and take a step up. 

What have you noticed are the main challenges in recruiting?

If you think about financial people nowadays, you don’t need to be what traditionally finance people were years ago, only focused on historical numbers, reports and monthly close. You need to have a very different skillset, where you build relationships with the business, where you are able to translate and build a bridge, a common platform with the business, to be able to support it. You also need to be tech savvy – to be able to innovate and change the way you work rapidly. This is also something that finance people do a lot – they pick the tools they know, the traditional tools they use, but nowadays things change so fast that it’s key to change your mindset.

What would be your advice to someone aspiring to be where you are now?

Persevere and be curious to learn always. What I’ve noticed for me, is that the road is never a straight line, there’s always a detour or a step backwards or sideways. It’s important to do what you think is right. Be always curious to push boundaries and to jump into the unknown, outside of your comfort zone.

Which 3 words would you use to best describe yourself?

Approachable, no-nonsense and curious

Anastasia is a German national and a devoted mother of 2 children. She has spent 8 years in Switzerland and is the CFO of Outdoorchef AG.
Outdoorchef AG is an outdoor barbecue business with companies in the Netherlands, Germany and Austria, with the HQ in Switzerland, and is held by Diethelm Keller Group. 

As someone who has been working in Switzerland for many years, what changes have you seen to the employment market, particularly within finance?

Over the last 9 years the market has seen an increase in Pharmaceutical businesses and start-up companies. Switzerland has maintained its’ competitiveness for new companies and still has a strong work life balance, which is attractive. Switzerland is known for our support of start-ups and low tax systems to attract international companies. We also have a strong international base of professionals which seems to have strengthened. I’d say there hasn’t been too much of a change on this front. 

We can see that you are growing your brand portfolio, what is your strategy and how does this affect your position?

We have a lot of brands and sectors that we work with; what’s important is having a passion for your product, whatever it is. You need to find that motivation for the product. 

Can you identify how your organisation stands out from the market and your competitors?

I just have one word - innovation. We have a unique product which is a unique system to produce tasteful and healthy grilled food. We are specialised on gas grills, which allows you time to spend more time with guests. It’s safe, tasteful and again healthy, which makes us one of the best in the market. The brand is just great - I have two barbecues at home!

What challenges await your business and how do you hope to overcome them?

There are always challenges that you will face, in any business and in any role. The best advice I can give to overcome these, is to surround yourself with a good strong team. With these foundations and working together, any challenge can be overcome.

You have worked for small companies and large businesses, what are the advantages and disadvantages of both?

I’ve really enjoyed working in both and believe it’s helped in my career to date. In a large business you can become a specialist in your field. In a small company you need to be more of a generalist, an allrounder. You have to work smarter and faster and I really enjoyed working closely with a business. It’s a little harder to be recognised in a larger company, but the training and development is there to support you. I had the luck of both and learned and developed my skills.

How did you get to the level you are at?

I’m ambitious, and I dedicated a lot. I love my job - motivation and passion are key attributes.

What great decisions do you believe you have made throughout your career and have you had to take risks?

Beginning my career in practice helped me. Not everyone who starts in the Big 4 becomes a CFO, so taking responsibilities and risks in your career is key. Everyday decisions hold elements of risk. When an opportunity arises, take it with both hands and embrace the challenges.

Looking back through your established career, what would you identify as a personal highlight?

Working at an international level, it’s really helped me to understand a variety of cultures, which makes you more open-minded. Languages are also key. I speak German, English, Italian and Greek; this gives me a better understanding of people and I can connect with my teams faster.

If you could give advice to mid-level accountants who are now thinking about their next career move, what would it be?

It always depends on their career ambitions; if they want to move forward and improve, it’s important to start with accounting. The basics. It’s key to know how this works and you can then become a Controller, Finance Manager or move into a ‘Head of’ role. Have passion in what you want to do and achieve. Changing companies and industry is also good - this varies your experience.

What advice would you give to future aspiring leaders, and why?

I would advise to lead with energy and focus; it’s again about having the passion for your role. For women, it’s important to treat all team members the same, in turn you will be treated with the same respect.
There shouldn’t be a divide between the sexes. You should be adaptable and teach this skill to your team. They in turn can work at the same speed as you. It’s important to have the trust and motivation from your team. Give them focus, work towards a target and enthuse energy to achieve the targets. Encourage team meetings with a purpose or agenda to follow.

Who is the most inspirational person in business to you, and why?

I have a lot! Every supervisor, CEO and colleague I’ve ever worked with I’ve learned from and they inspire me. I learnt the most from a former manager of mine; we didn’t personally connect but I was taught some great fundamentals which I still use today.

Equality in the workplace has been a hot topic for several years now. As a female CFO what issues do you face and how do you overcome them?

I think it’s really important that, as a Female CFO, I treat my team, my colleagues and my CEO the same. I’m not treating a female or male any differently and this reflects again on being treated the same regardless of title.  I’ve seen results with people treating each other like this. Throughout my career I have had to prove myself and to reach board level to bring another perspective to business and wish to see this increase throughout other international companies.

How did you get to the level you are at? What great decisions do you believe you have made throughout your career and have you had to take risks?

I always think that it was helpful to start out at the bottom and, if you look at my resume, I started from the bottom doing accounts payable, accounts receivable, invoicing, logistics, etc. When I look around sometimes I see people who come straight from university and they go to directly into a medium level role - which is fine when you know what you are talking about. For myself though, I find it helpful to know the foundation, to know the ins and outs of procedures and different departments, so that when you get to a higher level you understand and know what you are talking about, instead of talking about a theory and not realising that practically things work differently to what you learn in books.

That has been pretty helpful for me. For example, I did accounts receivable ages ago, but at this moment in my position I am dealing a lot with coaching my team on how they should collect from our customers or handling contracts with our collections agency. I know what the basics are so don’t have to truly depend on what people are telling me and can be at the same level to work with them.

From the ‘taking risks’ side, I don’t think it is really about taking risks, but more about daring to step outside of your comfort zone. There are times when I have been asked to take up responsibilities where I don’t have the full expertise so I would jump in there, be honest about what I can and cannot do, but at the same time, using my own networks and speaking to the right people to obtain what I need. On the whole it is better to be honest about your knowledge gaps and ask for advice; people will be more inclined to help as they appreciate your knowledge and will be more willing to share with you and you can learn from them.

If you could go back and give your younger (graduate) self some career advice, what would it be?

Like I mentioned, I think it is about starting from the bottom and if you are good, you will be recognised and that is where you grow – not starting high and falling hard. It is really good to also not only look at your academic and technical knowledge but also your soft skills and that is what I normally focus on when I interview people.  Someone who doesn’t have the technical knowledge can learn, whereas someone who has poor soft skills or thinks they know it all, is harder to guide into the shape you need them to be.

When did you decide to explore a career in this area and why?

Well, that is funny, as I was doing very poor in my junior high school maths and I was really bad at numbers and would get -10 points out of 100. That was quite an achievement I would say! Somehow, I overcame it by doing it repetitively and working hard. Then I got to the point where I started to understand things and the door just opened for me. At university, I was doing different things like marketing and international management, but people around me always said I was going to end up in finance. In fact, we had a school reunion and had to guess what everyone was doing now and everyone guessed right about my being in Finance!

How important was it for you to develop relationships outside of your department for career development?

I think this is an interesting point, as this is something I would say to mid-level accountants as well. Some of them ask me why they are staying at mid-level and are not able to climb higher, even though they are good at numbers, etc. What is important is to learn from different areas of the company. The finance function comes up with the financial statements at the end of the year and that is a summary of what has happened in the company, but this is not just finance; we gather the information and provide it and the business uses this information. Therefore it is important to learn from each department, to do your networking and speak to different people. By opening your eyes to a bigger picture, you then can better understand the reasons why we are doing this and what messages are brought to the decision makers - becoming an internal consultant to the company.

I think external networking is also helpful. For example, even if your current company is not innovating through AI and automation, etc, you should put yourself out there and understand what is going on. If you are sitting in your own office and not looking outside, you are going to be left behind at some point, whereas if you know this even if you are not doing it, it will help you to position yourself when you need to make certain decisions. You will already have the information, know what to do and who to contact - I think that is pretty important as well.

I have been to different conferences and seminars and even though you don’t necessarily do business with these companies, you get to hear from your peers (another accountant, treasurer or someone from the business) what they are doing, you know what the options are and this helps you to be a better advisor. The secret to networking? Just talk to people; be humble and stay open-minded. Through my career, I have been able to use my networking for the benefit of the company. There are cases when other departments need someone whom I know and I can make a referral. Talking and listening to people, and observing what they are up to, can be quite important; instead of just sitting in the office and doing your own thing. I don’t blame finance professionals, as you get stuck in with your own work and it is stressful, however, we spent money and we don’t make money, so we have to find areas to save money!

What would you say is the most rewarding part of your role?

I think that would be the recognition and not just on the knowledge side; technical knowledge is something you can learn on the job and absorb, whereas if you think about myself for example, I have been recognised for the soft skills and cultural background. This is one of the reasons why I am in the position I am in. It does not necessarily mean making good money is the key, but it is the job satisfaction which you get when you get to resolve a huge issue or meet your targets, or even exceed the limitation you once thought you had. At the same time, there are a lot of factors involved in whether you are successful or not, e.g. if I have a KPI to meet a certain % of EBITDA, I can’t do that alone, but can advise stakeholders on what they need to watch out on, in order to help the business to meet the target. Team recognition is also the key.

Looking back through your established career, what would you identify as a personal highlight?

I think moving from being a specialist. I have been a financial specialist for quite some years and moved into management and shared service centre management before my current role as CFO. These were the big steps I have made – this is a recognition for my work. I have worked hard, however, sometimes doing just that doesn’t get you to where you want to be. Sometimes you need a bit of luck and some outside factors to get you where you are. I have been lucky too to be given the opportunity on exploring my career further.

What advice would you give to future aspiring leaders, and why?

Being able to inspire people and motivate them is to get the best out of them. If you have team of people, you can’t always have the same approach with each person. People have different characteristics and will have different visions. One person might want to stay and not change their role and in situations like this, you can’t keep pushing the person as they will not stay. You have to understand what they want, what they can do, what they cannot do and use that to develop your team. Listening to the team to make the best out of the team.

If you could give advice to Mid-Level accountants who are now thinking about their next career move, what would it be? 

I guess it would be about being open-minded and looking at the bigger picture - not only thinking ” This is the step I take, this person gives me a report and then I send it my manager”? and that’s it. It is important to understand what impact you have on the rest of the process and what you can do to help your manager to do their job right. By thinking out of the box, it will help you grow further.

Now that you have interviewed hundreds of accountants in Amsterdam, what interview advice could you give?

I would suggest not only talking about what you are able to do technically, but also, before you to go interview to think about what values and soft skills you have that can contribute to the company. So of course, you are not going to be so innovative when you first join a company – your softer skills may be to be a good listener, for example; observing and understanding what is happening; understanding the background before rushing into making changes. I have seen people who are very enthusiastic - especially the younger generation – and they come into a job and say all the processes are wrong and tend to think they can make a change immediately. The challenge here is that this creates a barrier for them as the people working there will feel threatened by their ideas. New blood to the company is always good, but first observe, understand and slowly apply your ideas to the company and work on that; being patient is important.

Overall, I have been quite lucky as I have had mentors in my career. I have had good relationships with my managers, who also give me technical advice and helped me to grow into the manager that I am. I’m lucky with this, as I know it is not always easy to have a good boss. Yesterday I was reading an article, about how it is more important to have a good boss than it is to work in a good company, which is a very valid point.

Who is your most inspirational person in business and why?

I have always had a manager whom I can reach out to. I’ve had managers who do not sit in the same office or country and in that situation you need to know when you should reach out and on what. I‘m definitely flexible and it is always give and take, so by giving something you get something back. Having these inspirational people in my life is a big plus – my former managers. Even now at this stage I still keep in touch with them and they give inspiring, wonderful and helpful advice.

What books / blogs are you currently reading? What book could you recommend to accountants who are wanting to progress? 

I have been reading the Michelle Obama’s book – I found this an interesting read; it is good to read about strong women, learning from them.  

Describe yourself in 3 words

I would say I’m a problem-solver (can be good and bad!), open-minded and empathetic (on the people around me and team members - at the end of the day they are people; not just machines that you turn on and off!).

What brought you to the Netherlands initially?

I’m originally from Helsinki, Finland. I was finishing my MBA in Finland and decided to come here for an exchange year at the Vrije University. Midyear, I was lucky enough to get an Accounting Assistant role in an IT Distribution company and started working there part-time in the Finance Department. As the semester drew to a close, they asked me to stay on full time in an FP&A role - and I did. The company was a hyper-growth start up and was acquired first by Lockheed Martin and then by GE. With the growth of the company, my responsibilities kept progressing throughout the years and ultimately I became Finance Director. Career-wise there was more opportunity in the Netherlands and it made no sense to return to Finland.

What do you like the most about living and working here?

It’s very relatable for me coming from Northern Europe. It’s a very well run country; everything works well – there’s good infrastructure, education and healthcare and consequently very few frustrations and a good ease of living. There’s also a very good acceptance of the importance of work/life balance.

You have worked for Black Box since 2004. What have been the main changes to finance processes that you have seen throughout that time?

Well, my job has changed completely, a couple of times over, during this time. When I started, it was a corporate finance function. It was a decentralised matrix organisation; we did mainly strategy, corporate reviews and consolidation and were not very operationally involved. Over the years we became functionalised and in 2017 we created the shared service centre in the Netherlands – now it’s a completely operational finance function. Finance roles have also changed over the last 10 years – finance is now more focused on strategy and financial analysis, as a decision-making tool. What was the bread and butter of finance when I started - accounting and controlling - now has less focus, but is expected to work like a Swiss clock, always on time and never failing. Most of my day is spent on making decisions for the future rather than analysing historical numbers.

When I first worked here, I was the only person in international corporate finance! It was a satellite function, supporting the VP for the business unit. As SOX and other changes came in, we created more corporate finance functions. If you do something well then you get more and more to do, which we embraced, and so the team grew and grew and we now have 30 people in finance in the Netherlands (80 in total).

We have expanded our business, especially in Far East and APAC, and changed our go-to-market model in some countries to channel. We purchased an R&D company in Ireland and launched our own products. All these have had an impact on the blueprint of the business and also on finance processes.

What kind of culture have you created in finance at Black Box and how?

It’s always funny when people talk about creating culture, because ultimately we are just ourselves at the office. It’s a very transparent environment. It’s challenging but, at the same time, very considerate. We have a lot of humour of course! And a good team spirit, coming from the challenging projects we have completed together, particularly over the past two years. We have converted the ERP together, to Microsoft Dynamics, and centralised together. All of these projects gel you together as a team. Also, other factors which I take for granted like the fact that our kitchen has long tables, where we always have a sit down lunch and spend some time together to share the latest news – we try not to talk business. As we’ve expanded, the tables have gotten longer!

What changes have you seen in terms of the challenges you face when recruiting?

Although some language and technical skills combinations are hard to find, in general Netherlands is reasonably easy to recruit in. Language skills are becoming less of an issue as business language is English more and more. The challenge is more in finding the right people who are adaptable and with wide range of (transferable) skills to transform together with the company, as we grow and change. As the department has grown, we have been able to attract and retain great talent, as they can see the progression opportunities.  I am very proud of my team, trying to be a good leader for them keeps me going.

What impact will the recent acquisition by AGC Networks have on the global presence of Black Box?

Our geographical coverage is complementary, AGC is strong in APAC and Middle East and we in Americas and Europe. So it’s really a perfect match – together our offering is quite complete. Furthermore our managed services capabilities are complementary. In short, it expands our reach in terms of global markets, verticals and clients.

What has been the biggest challenge for you in progressing to become VP Finance?

I think the biggest challenge for us all, is to have the opportunity to work with people who will teach, mentor and believe in you, especially in the formational years of your career. I took on a Finance Director role in a 300M EUR turnover hyper- growth organisation at 28 years old and that was definitely challenging. But luckily the management team was very collaborative, supportive and really gave me a kick start. If you have the right ingredients in the beginning of your career, after that it is about doing the work diligently, being curious, learning new skills and not getting stuck in the comfort zone. A lot of people helped me along the way, and there are some people I am indebted to for sure – for example  a HR Director in GE, who really helped me as I was very young with little life experience and managing a big team. You can imagine that was sometimes challenging. So good peers, managers who challenge you but also support you, to take bigger steps than you might have done, are so important.

If you could go back and change one thing about your career, what would it be and why?

I wish I would have had exposure to various industries, such as HealthCare or FMCG. I feel we get typecast easily based on our experience, but actually the skills are very transferable and often a fresh perspective may open new ways of doing things. I’m not sure it achieves anything if we continue to take people from the same pool.

What do you love most about your role?

I love a lot of things about my role. First of all, most of us have broader roles than you would expect (for example in GE I also managed logistics and legal) and, secondly, we have become more like strategy makers, supporting the Managing Director/CEO. It is our job to explain the financials, tell the story of the numbers and translate the strategic plans to numbers to validate the hypothesis. Because we know the numbers and are neutral, due to our position, we are often invited to the boardroom alongside the MD. Being invited to pitch a new strategy with the MD – this is the area I particularly enjoy in my role. So when affecting major changes, we often have a seat at the table which is exciting. Sometimes it’s very funny because I can work from micro to macro in one day – debating a small charge on an expense report and then making a decision on a 2 million deal!

What advice would you give to women in finance careers who are looking to progress to a senior level?

Generally, just say yes to challenges, trust yourself and others and delegate if you need to.  There is nothing as empowering as taking on a new challenge. Things that you may see as limiting may be your biggest strengths, for example if you are short of time because of small kids, you are probably excellent in organising, prioritising and multitasking and family life has given you great interaction and situational skills. Sometimes the life skills we acquire as a parent are completely transferable in business.  So take the chances offered to you - once you have overcome something difficult, you gain confidence and get into a positive cycle, so be courageous!

Is there anyone, either in your personal life or in the public eye, who you would aspire to be like?

I don’t really believe in idolizing anyone. I appreciate people and read and learn, but in my eyes sometimes ordinary people are bigger heroes than people who get media coverage. We all have our own paths to follow and the responsibility to make the best out of them. In my family, my Grandfather came to Helsinki as a young man with no education and very little money in his pocket and became a successful  entrepreneur with several businesses. He was also a man of faith and so did missionary work. To complete his education, he went to university in his 60’s! He was, to me, a great example of being open-minded to the opportunities that life can give you and of being courageous.