Sophie Bergisch is the Global Finance Director at MassiveMusic in Amsterdam. She has been involved in financial management for almost six years, having previously specialised in accounting and account management.

What do you see as the biggest challenge for your business and your own role over the next 12 months?

After my first month at MassiveMusic, everything changed. I was hired as the right hand of the CFO, but, due to some unexpected events, I was put on the spot to take over those specific tasks. Not long after, I received a call from top management informing me there was a party (Songtradr Inc.) interested in acquiring us. So, from January until June 2020, I worked full time on the acquisition process and due diligence, together with a team of third-party experts.

The difficult part was that I couldn’t tell anything to any of my colleagues, due to confidentiality. I was very busy, but nobody really understood why. If you add that I started this job in a COVID lockdown period, well, that made it extra challenging. The silver lining in all this is that it allowed me to gain the role of Global Finance Director, so I’m very happy with that.

From my point of view, the biggest challenge for our business is to keep doing all the daily operational work like before, but also navigate through a big organisational change with our new mother company. As for my role specifically, the biggest challenge is to build a solid foundation for our global Finance team to service the team within MassiveMusic, as well as Songtradr and the other entities, as we are aiming to be global market leaders in the industry. The Finance department is playing quite a crucial role in bringing our talented people together and finding structured ways to share that knowledge.

What does MassiveMusic do to raise awareness around mental health and wellbeing?

The first thing that I can think of is Music x Mind, an initiative from our London office that focuses on the scientific effect that music has on the mind – there’s a lot of research that has proven how music can reduce stress and anxiety.

Internally, we have deep listening sessions with Wavepaths, a company that’s really into music as psychedelic therapy. Our colleagues can join via Zoom; you roll out a yoga mat and, for an hour-and-a-half, you get a music-infused guided meditation.

Also, this year we are eager to train our team leaders to signal whenever people are feeling overwhelmed, looking out for signals to prevent burnouts.

How can companies reduce the bias in the hiring process - how do you keep things open?

For me, the most important element is to make sure that the way you set up your hiring process is flexible enough so you can adapt it to a person’s need for their strengths to come out. If you have an interview with somebody, you should prepare in advance (e.g. who this person is going to talk to, what the topics are). It’s not only the skillset, but also the company fit that matters a lot.

The hiring process is a two-way street, so it’s also important that you show what you have to offer. People should feel safe to talk about whatever they feel like, including what they’re nervous about, not only what their strengths or weaknesses are.

Our HR Director inspired me with this little story. She said that, when they asked what her favourite song was during her job interview, she put on the song, and everyone listened to the song first – such a great icebreaker and a nice way to set the tone.

I am a very straightforward, business-minded person, so I thoroughly prepare, or I would not feel in control. I still remember when, after my own interview process at MassiveMusic, they told me they thought I would be no fun. I guess I was way too serious during the interviews! But that was good feedback to me and indeed, when I look back, I did not show much of my personality. I mostly focused on being very professional – this is also a note to self and a reminder to dive into people's personalities a little deeper when I interview them.

Where does Diversity & Inclusion sit, with HR, Finance, the leadership team? Who is meant to take ownership of that?

For me, if a company decides to focus on diversity, they need to make sure there is an owner of that topic, just like a design agency has a product owner. This way, that person will keep on pushing it internally, making it a priority.

At MassiveMusic, the one thing that connects everyone is our love and passion for music. Don’t get me wrong: you don’t have to be in a band to be hired, but a deep passion for music is expected. For our company culture, it doesn’t matter what your background is, as long as you’re as passionate about music as the rest of your colleagues. I think Massive did a great job to make sure that people are intrinsically aligned with the services that we provide for the biggest brands.

What would you say is the most rewarding part of your role?

The administrative and analysis part, in combination with the managing part. I love to think of clever ways to improve our business in terms of processes and profitability.

An interesting analysis would be our teams versus specific revenue – for example, is our team happy? Are people working together efficiently? And, if they are not, are there opportunity costs? What are the costs of people not working well together? How can we fix that?

Those are things not a lot of people think about, because they are difficult to measure. Doing that makes me feel like I’m adding value to the company in terms of making sure people can work more efficiently together, but also in terms of profitability and really helping the company grow.

What advice would you give to someone who is starting their career in Finance?

To thoroughly assess what your current skillset looks like right now. What are you good at? What do you want to learn? What do you like? What don’t you like?

Asking others for feedback is also important. I remember I was at a point in my career where I felt a bit stuck and I wanted to find a different job, but I didn’t know where to look and I wasn’t sure what it was supposed to be like. I knew it was Finance, but there are a lot of different directions I could possibly take. I started asking different recruiters if they were up for a coffee so I could ask them questions about the status of the work field for financials, and what opportunities there were at that moment. On top of expanding my network, it also gave me insightful information, quite a good view on what different salaries look like and where there’s a shortage of certain roles in certain fields.

Another tip would be to be active on LinkedIn, mostly to keep an eye on what the field and market look like, and to read finance-related articles.

Are there particular blogs, books or websites that you go to for your information? Do you read particular newspapers? Where do you get your information from?

I look up a lot on YouTube, that’s a great source of information: no matter how difficult the subject is, there’s someone who made a video about it.

To keep me up to date, I also read the newsletter of the NBA, the Dutch Accountants Association. I have to say, I’m not really a newspaper reader; I love podcasts though. There’s a Dutch one about investing at a young age called Jong Beleggen. Next to that, I have a subscription to Follow the Money, a Dutch platform whose investigative journalism into corporate businesses is very interesting. I can highly recommend reading their articles!

What are your tips on achieving work-life balance? What would you advise?

As a manager, I think it’s important to realise people might follow your lead when it comes to work ethics, especially when managing a younger team. Be a role model to what you think is healthy. I sometimes work in the evenings, but I would never message anyone. Weekends are a work-free zone for me. On Fridays I’m off but, as an end responsible person, I also understand I might have to do a little something sometimes, except for meetings. I don’t plan any of them during my time off.

I’m very strict with my personal time and very clear about my boundaries: I think it’s important to be vocal about it with your colleagues. This might sound unconventional, but to me a job is just a job and I feel very strongly about that when I think of my private life. Nothing is ever more important than what I have to do or what I want to do with my personal life. I think this is also the healthiest attitude to have towards your employer if you want to create a sustainable relationship.

From your own experience, what have you learnt and what would you share for people wanting to be in your position now?

It’s very important to determine what your core values are as a person, but also as a person to work for, and really stick to that – don’t deviate from who you truly are. Stay grounded with what works for you. Also, identify the people you can learn from as well as a role model within your company. Get specific on what you want to learn. Ask yourself: is this a place where I can learn that? Is there another place where I could learn faster? You can always reach your goals with other people, but you have to make an effort to reach out to those people. 

When I worked with a start-up, I already knew I wanted to do a master’s degree in Accountancy and Control. They wouldn’t finance it for me, and I couldn’t afford it at the time, so that was for me part of the reason I decided to switch to an Accountancy firm, because I knew that education is part of the benefits. So here I am, currently working on my master thesis.

Who is the most inspiring person in business for you and why?

I thought about this for a long time. I don’t think I have role models in business, but one person I find so badass is Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez. She’s a very young politician in the States – and I love people who defy odds. She worked really hard at three jobs, after that she went door to door in The Bronx, where she’s from, to personally collect votes from people. And they voted for her!

To me that shows a lot of personality and perseverance; she shows the traditional system that compassion and kindness actually bring you further than only work experience or a lot of economical experience or being a business owner. Personality is such an important and underrated element of the bigger picture, and I think that’s very admirable.

Thank you to Sophie for speaking to Georgia Wright, Associate Director for Finance & Accountancy recruitment in the Netherlands. 

Views and opinions contained within our Executive Interviews are those of the interviewee and not views shared by EMEA Recruitment.

Kimberly DeMello is the Vice President, HR International at HMSHost in Amsterdam. She has a wealth of experience in the Human Resources and Staffing discipline, having worked for multi-national organisations, such as Adidas and Procter & Gamble.

How do you feel the workplace will have changed as we emerge from the global pandemic, especially in a business like HMSHost that has experienced a significant impact?

From what I am reading, and hoping, is we continue to give the employee the flexibility of home and office working. I do not think the full working from home will be the norm and I believe the hybrid schedule will continue. The workplace will become more of a community-based place.

For example, my staff are working a schedule. We have one day a week that is our overlap day.We do all our collaborative project meeting updates, have lunch together, and when possible, finish the day with a drink and some snacks. It is an interaction day for everyone and it helps them stay connected. Keeping people connected is going to be the key I think for the future if we move away from brick and mortar offices. More than ever, our work crosses over to other functions. Making sure we keep the collaborative connection up is important.

At HMSHost, we have two very different workforces to consider. We have the staff roles to help support the operations. We never closed our office during COVID; we put the regulations in place and had a reduced staff policy in the office. We wanted people to have a place to come that gave them a quiet place to work. We wanted to show solidarity with our ops associates, who had to come to work every day, and we had a number of employees who live alone and away from their families. Mental health was taking a toll on those who were feeling isolated. The office became their social event of the week and helped to create some normalcy in their lives.

Then we have the operations that are working in the unit. A new way of working in the food service industry is going to be tough to change, but not unthinkable. There is an expectation of a person helping, however, I think technology will be a game changer for operations. For example, the addition of self-ordering kiosks and QR ordering codes.

What have you learnt as a leader over the past two years?

The first thing that comes to mind is resilience, not just for myself, but for every one of our associates, no matter what level, no matter the country, no matter staff or ops - they have worked so hard over the last two years to keep the company surviving.

I have learned to keep the teams focused. What is in our sphere of control right now? What can we still make happen under the circumstances we are under?

Also, a greater degree of patience, I am the type who wants something and I want it now.The pandemic has slowed me down. I know people have so much on their plates. It has taught me to lead from a slower speed and to calm down my expectations.

Listening has been key. This is one of the biggest global scale issues most of us have been through. People are at home; they feel scared and anxious about their jobs and life in general. We built up an internal communication page for people to connect to and country pages for more in-depth connection and discussion, if needed. We did global town halls, revamped our engagement survey, and gave every question an open-ended text box, so they could talk about whatever was on their mind. All these communication tools were fast tracked to keep associates informed, but also to allow them to share their feelings, thoughts, ideas and connections.

We listened to their input and put in more programs, communications and support to help.

Finally, teamwork – we came together as a leadership team to devise money-saving initiatives and, in the end, we did an amazing job; we are seeing the fruits of our labor as we see the business coming back to life. I’m really proud of our senior management team for keeping the faith and pushing for things that would keep us going. All teams did amazing, but I wanted to highlight my team, too.

How do you think digital transformation will change the role of HR?

There are some amazing HR products out there and it is a beautiful thing, as it frees us up from having to work in an operational capacity, allowing us to become more strategic with our managers, offering more coaching and leadership development, for example.

We are in the process of a major HR digital transformation at HMSHost. There are several key goals for us. One of our top priorities is making the candidate journey and onboarding quicker and more efficient. We hire people to work ASAP, so we do not have the luxury of time in a competitive environment. HR digitalisation also allows us to interact with other parts of the company to ensure a smooth onboarding process that allows us to give a good first impression to new hires, which is priceless. It will also allow personal information to be more readily available for the employee and be safe under GDPR rules.

Analytics is the biggest game changer, allowing a business to make more fact-driven decisions around people. This could be linked to analytics and reports in performance management tools to help quickly identify top talent and have better information on what learning and development programmes should be put in place. It could help lead to a more cost-efficient organisation, where money is invested in the areas that are most impactful.

What risks have you taken throughout your career and how did they help you get to the level you are at?

I look at my career as a sort of spider web, as opposed to the ladder. I have not been afraid to go down in grades or compensation to get the experience I needed in my function to become more well-rounded. Move to the side, move down, whatever the direction is to get well-rounded development in your area of work. I have also taken risks moving myself around the world. I’ve lived in the USA, Asia, the Middle East and Europe, which has opened doors to better understand a company and diverse cultures.

Lastly, I explored different industries. One of the best parts of HR, I think, is the ability to work in different industries. HR is a skillset that can be transferred from company to company. If you have the foundations of HR knowledge, it can be brought into a new company and paired with that company’s culture.

What is the biggest myth about your profession that you want to debunk?

Sometimes, the human aspect is not understood. HR is seen cold and we do not care about people. People want programs that work for them, so it can be hard for them to understand we do not have the capability or resources to create individual employee journeys for everyone (although one day this will hopefully be the case). We have to create policies, procedures and tools that serve the greater good. We do the best we can to cover as many needs as possible.

HR can also be seen as the “mean gate keeper” or “policy police”. There are times when HR are the ones explaining to employees what the situation is and trying to find meet-in-the-middle solutions, because the managers are not equipped to handle the situation.

I do think the COVID pandemic has shown businesses how critical HR is to the success of their organisation, so there is now a greater level of appreciation for the function.

Who is the most inspiring person in business for you and why?

Within HR, first and foremost, Dave Ulrich. I also like what Marcus Buckingham is doing within analytics and his strengthsfinder work.

In wider business, Reed Hastings, CEO of Netflix. His philosophy is to let people make decisions.They hire people to do a job, a good job, and let them do that, give them the autonomy. Their HR strategy is based on treating people like adults.I like the concept of letting people take ownership and taking accountability at the end of the day.

If you hadn’t pursued a career in HR, what other path might you have taken?

I had two thoughts on this. Firstly an elementary school teacher – I love the way children around seven, eight, nine process the world around them. I love their thought process. I love how they’re exploring things and questioning everything. Their hunger to learn more is so genuine. I’m getting a little sad, because my nephew is starting to get into the ten to 11 range, and he thinks he’s too cool to hang out with me!

Failing that, a nutritionist – I’m fascinated with the science of food!

Thank you to Kimberly for speaking to Katie Insley, Associate Director for Human Resources recruitment in the Netherlands. 

Views and opinions contained within our Executive Interviews are those of the interviewee and not views shared by EMEA Recruitment.

Olena Kvashyna is the Global Supply Chain Excellence Head at Clariant in Basel, Switzerland. She previously held several positions over a ten-year period at Syngenta.

What is it like leading a Global Supply Chain Excellence team?

First of all, thank you very much for inviting me to have this discussion. Looking back into different roles that I’ve had so far in my career, this is probably one of the most interesting ones. It is very intellectually stimulating and it also fits well with my natural curiosity. In Supply Chain Excellence, we get to observe the latest thought process in the Supply Chain area and we build on that knowledge to co-develop internal practises for Clariant, together with our business stakeholders.

The role of Supply Chain Excellence is being that outside-in observer who brings additional knowledge to fuel continuous improvement within the function. Supply Chain leaders depend a lot on the ability to implement change. Nothing in this life is static; what worked well some years ago might not work well in a few years. We need to constantly be on the lookout of where we can still improve and where we can bring additional changes to enhance value. I like to think of that quote from Heraclitus, which was: ‘The only constant in life is change’. I believe this is going to be the moral of Supply Chain nowadays, as change is happening even faster. The fact that we must permanently reassess ourselves and readjust ourselves is what makes this job very interesting.

To what extent are you scanning externally what’s going on?

We are doing this on a regular basis… We have some partners we’re working with and we are frequently reaching out to other industry players. It is very interesting talking to people in other industries, because it brings more fresh perspectives and ideas.

What does risk mean within Supply Chain?

Things can go wrong and they will go wrong with a certain frequency - that’s unavoidable!

We, as Supply Chain professionals, need to be prepared to address these risks through our fallback procedures and structures. What we cannot afford to do is to freeze in the face of uncertainty. Good risk management practice is the ability to assess and re-adjust in an efficient and time appropriate manner. COVID-19 showed clearly that companies must prepare to face unprecedented or unexpected risks. Those companies who were well prepared to face risks were able to react in a fast manner. For example, in case of supply shortages, they knew which customers were affected, what alternatives to offer those customers and how quickly those could be organized. This required excellent visibility and efficient decision-making processes. Therefore, the risk today is not to have invested in those processes.

Organisations today have a lot of data, but it’s the question of how structured this data is, if people know how to access the right data. This is key to prepare a well-tailored response under changing circumstances we are facing and do it very quickly.

What is your motivation for choosing the industry in the first place and actually staying in it?

The chemical industry does not have the best reputation to the wider public. I would say there is a negative perception. But we forget that chemistry is essentially life; it sustains our life! What attracted me to this industry is the fact that it impacts our every day. Every object I have on my desk was produced with chemical process contributing to it. So, essentially, it is everywhere. This is not to deny that there are problems in the industry, but a lot of the solutions may come from within the industry as well. The topic of sustainability is becoming huge - it attracts a lot of attention and a lot of talent coming in with very positive intentions.

I think that, in the close future, we will see a lot of solutions to the current sustainability problems coming from within the chemical industry. How do we introduce that positive change? If you want to be in the forefront of it, that is through bringing your voice. If you want to solve a problem, be part of the solution.

What would you say is the biggest challenge facing leaders currently?

The topic of post-pandemic world and workplace is a million-dollar question. I believe that, emerging out of this pandemic, we have built much more trust in our teams and in their ability to collaborate and deliver. I can only hope that we continue building on this trust, with offering more flexibility and more power to people to take their own decisions. So, I am all in for more flexibility, which I think is where we’re heading.

The biggest challenge today is probably to reconcile the different preferences. There are people who want to just go back to how it was before, where we’d be in the office 100% of the time. There are people who don’t want to go back to the office at all, while others want a mix. How do we reconcile all of these? I believe trust is the key. We should empower people to figure this out; give them that freedom to experiment, freedom to try out the options. Our role is to try and help them out in this process and not to impose anything during this time of experimentation.

As well as the positions you’ve held within Supply Chain and Procurement, you’ve also had a role within M&A, leading projects in this area. How did you plan your career path?

I don’t think that I’ve ever had a very well predefined path in my mind. I had too many interests to be able to settle on just one. Since I’ve entered the corporate world, I was interested to understand how this corporate machine is really working. Early on, I would build dialogues with various departments to understand how they were functioning, how they affected each other, thus connecting the dots between functions. This approach exposed me to a number of different opportunities and basically brought to my attention a lot of new roles opening up in the company.

Coming back to the M&A example, I have learnt that, in an upcoming divestment project, there were concerns around impact on the Supply Chain set-up. This knowledge helped me position myself as the right expert to enter the team and to be able to contribute to the teamwork. It was a win-win situation, because they were gaining that additional experience needed at that point of time, while it gave me an opportunity to learn new skills. I believe this diverse experience helped me position myself better for my next roles.

I guess you can say that my career was more shaped by curiosity, rather than a pre-planned path.

Is there any advice that you would give to aspiring leaders?

Stay curious!

Also, stop trying to be perfect at everything. I observe many high performers, often young and very motivated, very ambitious people, trying to excel at everything, which is just not possible. I think instead of trying to be perfect, it is important to find your unique style based on your unique strengths. It is important to seek feedback and stay conscious about your strengths and your weaknesses. If you’re aware of your weaknesses, you can try to counterbalance them, for example, with the support of other team members.

How can leaders create diverse teams?

This comes with awareness of the topic. When hiring, there’s a tendency to choose candidates similar to ourselves, because we find it easier to get along and we naturally like them. Be aware of this bias.

The very first time I hired a team member, I interviewed the candidates and picked out the person I wanted to offer the job to. I remembered the reaction of the HR BP : she laughed and basically told me: ‘You chose a mini-you, I can see how you guys are going to get along, but have you thought about how you’re going to generate new ideas?’. I still hired that candidate, because I was convinced it was a good fit. And it was, but in hindsight, I do see how coming from having the same background and work experience limited us seeing new opportunities and new ways of working.

Now, when I approach hiring, I first try to assess the team - if we have any weaknesses or gaps - and hire to counterbalance these. I also try to involve other team members in the hiring process, so they could help with my blind spots. For a team, it is important to be able to generate different opinions and views, to secure a more inspiring kind of environment.

What is the best book that you have read and why?

Honestly, there’s so many great books that it’s very difficult to make a choice. If I had to settle on something, it’s a book that helped me cope with the limitations of the last two years imposed by the pandemic. It is called A Beautiful Constraint by Adam Morgan and Mark Barden. As you can imagine from the title, it talks about constraints and how to deal with them. It builds on the old idea of making lemonade out of lemons, but takes it to a next level. It suggests a framework how to rewire yourself to be on the lookout for opportunities that come out of the constraints and how to excel in a constrained world. It talks about the importance of the open mindset, can-if attitude, and other ideas and methods to be applied in your daily life. It also provides several very inspiring examples of how people achieved their goals under very limited circumstances, so I think it’s a good read.

Thank you to Olena for speaking to our Supply Chain and Operations recruitment team in Switzerland, led by Neil Cope. 

Views and opinions contained within our Executive Interviews are those of the interviewee and not views shared by EMEA Recruitment.

Dominique Surinx is a dynamic Supply Chain leader, with 26 years’ professional experience across both corporate and entrepreneurial environments.

What was it like being the head of Supply Chain of a larger manufacturing network in the life sciences industry?

It is really exciting to contribute to a healthier world; it definitely gives a lot of satisfaction. When looking at the current COVID-19 situation, being able to help and contribute to bringing vaccines to the markets gave a very high satisfaction. Of course, it came with a lot of challenges. Most of those problems were really critical for our customers and also patients. If you don’t deliver in time, it can really have a very large impact. Trying to solve these issues and working with customers is really part of the fun. If you can mitigate these challenges, it means you can really contribute and really make the planet a healthier place.

I think the supply chain by itself is an exciting place to work; you have to work with all the different functions to manage the network globally. It’s really all about teamwork and being the glue within that team - we all need to work together to support our customers and the patients at the end. So, it is really a very exciting area to work in.

In any one day, who were the main stakeholders that you were dealing with internally in Supply Chain for non-Supply Chain professionals listening to this?

I think it was practically all functions, to be honest… Sales and Marketing, obviously, Customer Service, Finance, Operations, Manufacturing; you’re interacting with all these functions every day. That’s what really makes it interesting. You must make sure that that it all comes together and all works to deliver to the customer.

After nearly 20 years in the life sciences industry, what would you say is the largest change that you’ve seen?

It’s not so easy to answer, because what I have seen over all this time is that a lot of things remain the same. If I look at what our customers looked for, it’s really security of supply, quality and compliance, and supporting them with special products. These remain the key drivers over all of this time that I’ve been in the life science industry over 20 years. Of course, you do see some trends, like customer efficiency, which become much more important today.  

Overall, the market is moving away from these large blockbuster drugs that we had in the past; it’s focusing much more on specialised, personalised medicine, so that’s definitely a trend that I see. Probably the most unprecedented trend is the unpredictability of the demands at this moment. It’s something that I’ve never seen before in the industry, so this means that you have to become much more flexible, robust and resilient, while maintaining those traditional requirements, like the security of supply and the quality and compliance and the excellent support. So, it’s quite challenging.

I think also that the companies who will be able to cope with this unpredictability and become more flexible will be the winners in the market in the future. That’s a very different situation than you had maybe ten or 20 years ago. What’s very positive is that, in order to achieve this flexibility, we are seeing more collaboration between large companies working with smaller science or technology-based companies. These collaborations result in more complex products hitting the market faster. I think it is very positive, because, at the end, it’s the patient who will ultimately benefit from this. So, I would say the last two years is probably the biggest change that I’ve seen in the industry.

Are the profit margins bigger for personalised medicine or is that not the case?

I would be careful with this statement; I think that the companies focusing on this more personalised medicine are struggling to get the same profit margins. Don’t forget, with these blockbusters, you had an incredible economy of scale. Also, in personalised medicine, there is significant R&D investment, with only a small volume of sales ultimately to offset this. I think that it’s definitely going to be more challenging for the industry to get to the same profit margin and continue to invest in the same way for innovation and R&D.

What is it that you think makes Switzerland quite attractive to life sciences companies?

It is indeed a very interesting trend, although I must admit I’m actually a Belgian national and only recently settling in Switzerland, so I’m definitely not an expert. But what you clearly see is that Switzerland is very interesting in general for industries. There are good universities, the infrastructure is excellent and also you have a very flexible labour market. That’s really in contrast to some of the more traditional western countries, where the labour market is much more inflexible.

You have a very high standard of living here in Switzerland and, of course, it is a beautiful country. For life science, traditionally there’s already a strong presence in Switzerland and a very strong market growth. This encourages top talent to settle here, which provides a very strong case for these companies to further invest in Switzerland.

You actually co-founded an industrial start-up, Borit. Do you have a memorable moment from that time and why does that moment stand out?

There is nothing as intense as being an entrepreneur, to be honest. This first from a customer after starting a new company is so incredibly exciting, it gives so much adrenalin and satisfaction and is a moment that you always remember in your career. When we started, our first customer was located in the United States. It is very interesting, because they are adopting new technologies faster than we are here in Europe. The US is often less risk averse; they are happy to partner up with a small start-up company. I must admit that afterwards we were able to attract a lot of large companies, but it’s a very nice example of how, with specific technology or specific products, you can differentiate yourself and you can actually bring value to larger companies. It’s an incredible feeling and it’s the most memorable moment from my career.

The other moments focus around travelling. I had the opportunity to support the building of new plants in Asia - Thailand and China - which were, at that moment, very high growth countries obviously, but nothing is as intense as being an entrepreneur, that’s definitely the most memorable.

Do you have any advice to other leaders who are considering starting a business?

Probably a whole list of advice after such an experience. I think what’s really important is if you have these ideas and you feel that this entrepreneurship is within you, don’t hold back. Really go for it! Before this, though, evaluate the risk well, because there’s definitely some risk associated with it. Just evaluate it well before you make that jump, so you can reduce your risk in the early phases. I think also don’t do it by yourself, find some partners, including the right investment partners; cash is key and every company has its negative moments.

Even the biggest success stories all went through a rolling cluster of success and down periods, so you need to have good, robust partners.

For people who are less experienced considering a career in Supply Chain, what is the biggest myth that you want to debunk?

For everybody who is considering this, I can only recommend it. It’s so interesting, because you get in contact with all the different functions, all the different departments and you make sure they’re all working together to achieve a certain goal. Often, you hear that Supply Chain is complex and for specialists who have been there for many years, I think it’s quite the opposite actually. If you’ve got a broad experience in many different functions, Supply Chain is actually a very well suited area for you.

It’s all about common business sense, but good teamwork, bringing and delivering value to your customers. For me, every good Supply Chain solution is a simple one; if it looks complex, if it feels complex, then you can be sure it will not work. It needs to be simple. Supply Chain for me needs to be simple.

Generally, aside from Supply Chain, what is your favourite business motto and why?

I had to think a little bit about that question, to be honest, but I have found a good one and most in line with my career. Nike’s Just do it. Maybe some explanation here: life is too short to hold back and not do the things that you want to achieve during your time here on Earth. I think, in general, people are very much driven by social expectations and norms and the way they grew up, the way society expects you to evolve. If you travel lots globally and internationally, you work with many different cultures. You really start to understand that those values are still very relative and can be very different from where you are in the world. You start to understand there is just not one truth like you would do if you lived in your own small society or country. So, I think it’s important to break free from that and break free from the social expectations, do the things you want to do, and do especially things that make you and your family happy, so Just do it from Nike I think a fantastic business motto.

Tell me about a hidden talent of yours.

Sport has been very important in my life and even in my career. When I was younger, I practised karate. I did that for 25 years - of course was a black belt - and it helped me lots in my professional life and in my professional career. Of course, it taught me discipline and hard work; I learned not to give up and to respect others, but it also definitely helps to stay calm in very stressful circumstances, so there’s a lot you can get out of such a sport.

A bit later, when I became too old to do that very intensively, I did switch and I joined my older daughter in her passion, which is horseback riding. She is incredibly good at it and I must admit that it was quite an experience. You’re this manager, you think you are fully in control of your life and your team, but then all of a sudden you have to ride an incredibly strong animal, which you have to direct and influence. You have to let go of the illusion of control, because you are not in control and you can only hope that you can influence the animal in a very good way.

The more responsibility you get in your career, the more this is relevant. You are not in control; you can influence, but you’re still very dependent on others. A horse, despite its strength, is an incredibly sensitive animal, and it really reflects your emotional status and brings it back like a mirror. If you’re tense, the horse will be tense. If you’re nervous, the horse will be nervous. I think if you’re leading a team, its very much the same; you have to be very confident and strong, but also listen and be there for the team. That’s the same with the horse, so it’s an experience I can only recommend to every manager.

Thank you to Dominique for speaking to our Supply Chain and Operations recruitment team in Switzerland, led by Neil Cope. 

Views and opinions contained within our Executive Interviews are those of the interviewee and not views shared by EMEA Recruitment.

Gerard Sieben is the CFO & Management Board Member at Unibail-Rodamco-Westfield (URW) in Amsterdam. He has been with the business for over 13 years, having previously held roles such as Project Manager Finance and Finance Director.

What do you see as the biggest challenges for a) your business, and b) your own role over the next 12 months?

I think the biggest challenge for us in retail real estate is reinventing our future. A lot of people no longer believe in retail real estate. We are not the flavour of the month, so to say, for investors. I think we as URW proved that there is a reason to exist for large shopping malls. For destinations beyond shopping, like Disney, where you can spend the day or at least part of the day. But, of course, we need to find a way to monetize that, and to make it profitable and to grow again, as we have done over the past years, and also to prove to the markets that we are capable of doing so.

I think that that's the biggest challenge for us - to prove to the market that we have a reason of existence and that we will find new lines of income in the shopping centres we have.

What does that mean for your own role over the next of 12 months? What challenges do you see there?

The challenge is probably to stop reporting overly on the past and start dashboarding, being a partner to the business and support future decisions with data. With the pandemic in mind, we have to find a way to benchmark our past results, but also going forward with new lines of business - we need to show how this can be profitable and how these growth models can work, and I think that that's more a general challenge for CFOs at this time.

As financial people, we tend to compare everything with the past and report on the past. Considering the past year or whatever, that’s too late. The world is turning so fast and you have to look at the data of today and define what you can and change from working in the past towards looking at the future. We need projects based on the future and I think that that's one of the biggest challenges for me personally.

I know you have been office working during this time, however, how do you feel the workplace will have changed as we emerge from the global pandemic?

There is, of course, differences between individual people working. If I look at my team, if I look at our organization, we have a group of very professional people who know what they need to do and what they need to deliver, and this does not really relate to a certain space. So, it's fine for them to work from home. It's also fine for them to work at times where they think it's most convenient – no fixed office times. They can start at 11:00 and finish at 20:00 in the evening if they want to, or the opposite.

Companies who employ large groups of people will find themselves requiring less space, because there will be more flexibility. As for how a typical office will look like in the future, I think that's a challenge, because I’m not sure if working hours and large office spaces are the best solution. I think the office in the future will be much more a place where people gather, where they find out about new things, about important things, where they talk about challenges they have. It will be more for social interaction, which benefits the work as well, but also with the liberty to decide whether they want to come or not. Employees needed to be more efficient working from home; this requires more flexibility and I think, in the end, it will require less office space for the larger companies.

What have you learnt as a leader over the past 12 months?

I think you need to be open to changes and adapt easily. Specifically, for myself, what has struck me was the fact that, in the past, we used to rely on newspapers, internet and television for news. Today, I sometimes skip the news or the papers or whatever because I don't know what is the truth. You find so much information that you can't really judge what is right and what not.

As a leader, of course you have to manage your team to go through all this. To motivate your people to not worry too much, and to also accept what is and isn’t in their control. To keep the focus on the future and keep the positive mind on it, to create a working environment with time for non-work related chit-chat as well. So, flexibility I think is very important.

What does your organisation do to raise awareness around mental health and wellbeing?

We have set up a program called URW Academy, which provides trainings and courses related to work. Early last year, when the crisis started, we also introduced a number of trainings on wellbeing, on how to relax, how to organize your life, etc.

For example, when you have a Teams meeting and you don't necessarily need to be on screen, you could also go out and have a walk and listen in. There are plenty of these meetings where you just sit and listen and you need to participate, however, you need to understand what has been told and it's very easy to go out, to put in your ear buds and to just listen while you're having a walk outside.

What I got back off of my team members is that this was perceived very well and they liked it. Also, the wellbeing trainings received good feedback. I have a few people in my team who live in the centre of Amsterdam in a tiny apartment, and I can imagine you want to go out every once in a while.

How does your company work to retain high potential employees?

What we try to do is have frequent conversations with our people. Talk about what their aspirations are. How they see their future and how this aligns with what we have to offer as a company, in terms of training, in terms of next steps and possibly the ambitions to work abroad. Create an open communication, trust between manager and employee in which there are no (or little) surprises and next steps can be anticipated.

What risks have you taken throughout your career and how did they help you get to the level you are at?

I come from a totally different background, and I think the red line through my career, in my life, has always been that I'm not too worried about the far future; my horizon spans three to four years, then typically I want to do something new.

And I don't really care what that's going to mean - I'm open to all sorts of new things and their risks. At one stage in my career, I resigned from a permanent role to become self-employed without having an assignment yet. With the family relying on me as provider, it was a stressful period. However, I found a nice new position and I ended up working as a self-employed contractor for 12 years.

I tend to believe this was based on what I did, what I performed and the reliability I showed to people to solve problems, to come with unexpected solutions and things like that. I think that, in a way, worked for me and also the fact that I didn't really worry about the future. Some people are so worried about tomorrow that they that they don't live today – very philosophical, but I think it’s true.

What would you say was your secret to building a network or becoming that known person that people came to, because you were reliable, and you delivered and had innovative solutions?

I was quite early with having a profile on LinkedIn and, at that time, many people said, “What does it bring me?”, “Why should I do a LinkedIn profile?”, “I don't get it”, “I don't see the benefit of it”.
And I would explain that networking is not about needing something now or tomorrow. Networking is about getting to know people, doing things for people and, one day, it will get back to you. You don't know by whom, you don't know when, but it will happen. It’s about giving and not thinking about what you get back for it. And I think that's been my philosophy; if I can help someone, I would do so.

How did you plan out your career development path?

After quitting my bachelor’s, I spent a few years working in many different jobs. After a few years, I realized for me there's more in life than being a bartender or a taxi driver. At this point, some people get stuck and say, “Oh, but I don't have an education” and “I'm too old” and “I will never find another job”. I just took it on and evolved and started learning again, and accepted my first job as a Financial Controller without any experience, and that's 23 years ago.

It's not really that I plan ahead for three or four years and that I am constantly thinking about the next steps. It's more that I take on a new challenge and then, after a few years, you get very familiar to the processes and you end up doing the same thing over again, and that's where I have my scope for three or four years. The first year is exciting. You have to set up things. The second year you see that there's still improvements possible to what you did the first year and then, if everything goes right the third year, you start benefiting from what you did before that and after that, it gets routine and it gets easy.

And that's where I tend to lose my interest. As I told a colleague a few hours ago, for me, an exciting day is a day where things go wrong, where I have to make sure that I can fix things. If everything goes right, I'm bored, it's not that exciting. Sometimes, it's nice to have an easy day or an easy week. But, after a few weeks, I think of what could go wrong, because I'm happy to solve things and that's where I thrive.

Does that come from having a bit of a contractor mentality, maybe coming in to solve a problem and work on a particular project?

Yeah, I guess it's two-fold. In my early career, I was employed, but also for these time spans, I think my longest job was four years. Even as a contractor, after being contracted for URW for ten years, it was not one job. It was four or five assignments. So yes, I think it's related to that mindset that you want to solve things, that you want to take on new challenges and that I'm not too worried about new challenges.

What advice would you give to aspiring leaders?

The best piece of advice is that you have to listen to your people, to your colleagues. Be open and make sure that you don't get into this tunnel where you get too convinced of yourself. I think that happens to leaders when they are too long in the same space.

Accept criticism and understand that sometimes your spot has changed and that you have to evolve, or that it's no longer your spot. If you're a change manager and you get into a stable situation, then it's time to move on, because then it's no longer your thing. A manager who has to work in a stable environment has different skills to one that manages a lot of changes, and the other way around.

While we continue to face the realities of COVID-19, how have you seen your approach to Finance evolve.

Of course, cash is very important at the moment. In the past, we had the luxury that it was very easy to finance ourselves. And then it was very easy to approach banks to get financing. And we see that times have changed and that it's more difficult. I think that's an important one.

I think there's a lot of support. Government support for companies, which, at some stage, will end. And they have to support themselves again, but they also have to think about the consequences of today's support; if it's taxes, for example, that they have to be paid somewhere in the end.

I think Finance is always a bit conscious of a company and they have to create a lot of awareness of this and to make sure that all the people are not too negative, in periods where you need positivity -   but the other way around as well - that they are a bit more realistic in times where they are very positive and, for one company, it gives new challenges and exciting new opportunities. You have to adapt.

Who is the most inspiring person in business for you and why? Are you going to say Max Verstappen?

I was really thinking about him, because he is so focused and so convinced of his own abilities. If you look at him, he is so calm, especially under the pressure he was under. And, at some stage in his final race of 2021, I thought that was it, he is 12 seconds behind, there's no way he's going to win. And then something happens, it all turns, and in the last few seconds, he becomes world champion.

And then we all know this story about his father, who tried to be a Formula One driver, and the guy is so focused, he was successful at a very young age. He’s achieved an awful lot. It's almost like a superpower, but still the focus the guy has and the way a lot of people can relate with him, although they will never be drivers like him. To stay on your goal and be focussed, that’s really inspiring – he’s an inspiring guy, even though he’s only 24-years-old!

And then, finally - this is a just-for-fun question - do you have any hidden talents?

I used to have a drum kit and, although I never played in a band, I played at home for quite a long time, and I think I am still pretty good. I told my kids that whenever I would have an office big enough to fit a drum kit in, then I would for sure buy a new one.

A drummer is always a bit in the background. He's not in the front like the singer, but he’s always a bit in the back, supporting the rest of the band and making sure that they are on the same beat, at the same pace, and that they all stick in the same rhythm, and I think that's in alignment with the role of a CFO.

Thank you to Gerard for speaking to Georgia Wright, Associate Director in our Finance & Accountancy recruitment team in the Netherlands.

Views and opinions contained within our Executive Interviews are those of the interviewee and not views shared by EMEA Recruitment.

Rimmert van Luyn is the VP Global Transportation, Customs & Compliance and EMEA Operations at Hitachi Vantara. He previously spent eight years at Hitachi Transport System as the Director Europe and was the VP Global Transportation, Customs & Compliance at Hitachi Data Systems.

What does your organisation do to drive its sustainability agenda?

Hitachi’s slogan is, Hitachi Social Innovation is POWERING GOOD, which means we will devote all our energy to realize the good desired by people throughout the world, raise the quality of people's lives and build a sustainable society.

This is embedded throughout all Hitachi’s companies. The products we design and sell, our cultural values, our sustainability goals, and the double bottom line philosophy. Hitachi’s overall mission of Social Innovation is to deliver outcomes that benefit business and society. That’s our double bottom-line and it’s why Hitachi Vantara is in business. There are also examples that our sister companies like Hitachi Rail and Hitachi Energy are moving the business model towards sustainability.

Hitachi was also present at COP26 in Glasgow in early November, where we were a principal partner. Here, we mentioned strengthening our climate target to contribute to a net zero society, by achieving neutrality through our entire value chain, including production, procurement, and the use of products and services by 2050.

At Hitachi Vantara and, in particular, the Global Supply Chain Group, we have been able to book many successes over the last few years. We just published some articles recently: https://www.hitachivantara.com/blog/business-case-for-sustainable-supply-chains-is-in-data/ and https://www.hitachivantara.com/blog/empower-your-people-through-sustainability-initiatives/

How do you feel the workplace will have changed as we emerge from the global pandemic?

The world has changed and it is continuously changing. Pre-COVID, I was travelling often for work - this stopped. Then we believed that the COVID issue would be solved quickly. Now, it has been with us for almost two years and it will be with us a little bit longer.

Working from home was not common; it was considered you were not part of the team. Now, we have remote teams, changing leadership behaviour and skills to motivate individuals, high-performance teams still achieving the overall results.

What I have seen since the pandemic is that we are flexible and eager to get together when the situation allows us, and there is a need to get things done. If there is the right culture -  valuing people, integrity and trust, collaboration, and accountability and empowerment - I’m convinced you can be successful, wherever you work from. 

Therefore, I believe the core values have not changed; the circumstances and the external factors have changed, and will continue to change. We, as humans, are flexible enough to adjust to the changes.

What risks have you taken throughout your career and how did they help you get to the level you are at?

At one point, there was an open position in the company I used to work at, an EMEA Operations role. I was convinced I could do this. Secondly, this was the ultimate next step in my career. I discussed this with the European Human Resources Manager and asked for feedback. He advised me that, if I really wanted the role, I should call the Managing Director and share my motivation with him. I was scared to take this risk, but I also trusted the advice I was given. So, I called him and had a chat about the reason why I wanted the role. He basically told be to wait until the role would be published. 

I did, got the interview, was one of the final two candidates and got the job. When I met the Managing Director in my new role, his feedback was that he admired the courage it took to call him. This was one of the reasons why I was given that role.

Besides that example, I believe calculated risks are part of efficient leadership. Decisions need to be taken to move quickly towards the desired result.

How did you plan out your career development path?

When I started working, I wrote down my long-term ambition. Since then, at the end of each year, I create a list of accomplishments achieved, together with new goals and objectives for the next year(s). It helps me making decisions when new opportunities come along, or motivating myself to look for change or directions that brings me to the goals and objectives I have set. These goals and objectives I set are business-related, but also personal. This helps me to keep my work-life in balance.

What is the most surprising thing that has happened during your career?

I have a couple of things that surprised me during my career. In terms of intercultural communication, I have experienced many surprises, good and bad. And this can be extremely funny and sometimes embarrassing, too. I cherish these moments.

Secondly, looking back at what I initially wanted to achieve and where I am now, I’m surprised that I achieved what I had in mind at the time.

Finally, it still surprises me that leaders who manage by fear still can get away with such a management style. I still see this around me - not necessarily within my company - and strongly believe there are other ways to be successful as a leader or a company.

How can companies reduce bias in the hiring process?

This is a serious challenge. The process should be as transparent and objective as possible, and that is very complex. At the company I work for, we spend a lot of time on Diversity & Inclusion.

To understand the unconscious bias is a simple way to improve Diversity & Inclusion. And, of course, there are many other aspects that we need to take into consideration to reduce the bias. We must continue to identify the bias and create awareness to reduce the bias. At Hitachi Vantara, there are several (online) trainings available. This helps creating awareness. I also believe that technology (artificial intelligence) can help us reduce bias, creating consistency in the process.

What are the current recruitment challenges that you face?

So far, we have been able to find the right candidates and did not face challenges. We hire for cultural fit, where we search for candidates who share our values and understand our high-performance team culture. If this is a match, we also believe this candidate will outperform in the job we offer. And, as a company, we provide an excellent work-life balance, which is important for candidates to make the decision to work for Hitachi Vantara.

What advice would you give to aspiring leaders?

Stay yourself. Don't let yourself be led too often by things you have to do, or things you should do. Keep developing yourself, set goals and objectives.

Treat everyone with respect, be open and honest. You will be respected; people will be open and honest to you.

Thank you to Rimmert for speaking to Michelle Ewing, Director at EMEA Recruitment. 

Views and opinions contained within our Executive Interviews are those of the interviewee and not views shared by EMEA Recruitment.