How can companies reduce bias in the hiring process?

Within Kraft Heinz, it really started by acknowledging that there are inherent biases when hiring for finance jobs. A lot of people claim that there aren’t, but you just need to realistically look at it and for us we said, ‘yes, they are definitely there’. Once we all established that we had those biases and articulated what they were, we build in what we call smart checks and controls to actively counter biases.

We don’t necessarily believe in having a quota on certain biases, for instance, the number of women in a firm or the number of people from a certain ethnicity, but we do believe in creating these active checks and controls.

For instance, we more actively use profiling when we hire, recognizing, for instance, that the current Kraft Heinz population might be very blue/reddish with a lot of analytical hard drivers, while for the direction we’re going as a business, we need more creativity, organisers and harmonisers - so the more yellow and green type of people. As such, we’re actively including that in our evaluation of people, countering your own bias, because obviously a red person will be more attracted to a red person in the hiring process.

Second, in every hiring process, we’re including cross-functional interviewers, meaning someone who has nothing to do with the role/team for which we’re hiring, to make sure that we are not biased because we really want to fill a role. In this way, we have someone objectively evaluating the true fit. As such, when we are looking for a Finance person, someone from, for instance, Supply Chain would also talk to the person.

As our last counter towards biases in the hiring process, we are actively trying to make the inflow of candidates in the hiring process a fair representation of society. If, in theory, the inflow of candidates is 90% male, it is not that weird that the output of the process (i.e. people being hired) is also 90% male. What we are now more actively doing is making sure we get our inflow from different sources. Think of, for instance, building partnerships with student associations that are more connected to different ethnicities. The key is to understand that most companies focus on bias in the hiring process (i.e. the evaluation and selection of candidates), though focusing on your inflow in the hiring process is as important.

How does your company work to retain high potential employees?

The thing that Kraft Heinz does differently compared to other companies is offering good career perspective. Not that others don’t offer career perspective, but Kraft Heinz has a unique aspect in offering employees non-restricted career dreams, regardless to where an employee currently stands.

What I personally like about this is that you can literally go in every career direction, zigzag to wherever you want to be. Our HR lead was originally a marketeer, our MD originally managed the field sales, and one of our European Heads of Category used to be a Finance person. Basically, meaning that wherever you want to go, Kraft Heinz will support you. If you start off as a Finance person and suddenly decide you want to do Marketing, you can go to Marketing, although you have never done Marketing in your life. At Kraft Heinz, we believe more in having certain capabilities, rather than having certain experience, when being assessed for a role.

That particularly makes Kraft Heinz unique and, when combining this with our active talent management, it creates strong career perspective. We try to talk ambitions and career planning very actively with our people. If you show your talents that they can become whatever they aspire and we’re going to help you to work towards that, that really gives talents perspective. You need to give talents perspective, so they know they’re going somewhere. 

Second, we are really focusing on the belonging to a certain BU to make sure everybody’s engaged and understands what they are doing in contribution to the journey we’re going as a BU in whatever direction that is, so they have a certain sense of belonging.

I do really think that’s super unique, Darren; I really don’t hear that very often about being able to go in any direction you want, more focused on the ability as opposed to ‘have you done it before?’ and I guess you are already seeing the benefits of that, giving people the opportunity to move to other areas, and you will see the retention in staff I assume?

Definitely, there are two elements. You really see people that enjoy working within Kraft Heinz and are highly talented remaining with us and growing fast, though at the same time we are also a highly demanding organisation. It is also the case that certain people after an x amount of years say, ‘okay, I enjoyed my time doing this, but I want something different now, so I’m leaving’. I personally think you also need to accept that consequence of the way you build your company, in the sense that if you want to create a certain DNA within your organisation, it will mean that not everyone will fit forever. Retention is an important topic for us, where we try to work hard on retaining the people that fit your company, but you won’t be able to retain everyone if you strive for a certain DNA within your company.

What advice would you offer to someone moving to the Netherlands?

First of all, my advice would be, do it. I think the Netherlands is a good place for expats. First and foremost because everybody speaks English, which helps communication wise. Besides, I find Dutch people very open; it is a country that is very open to different cultures, and people are willing to connect and engage if you show that willingness to them. So do it, that’s the first advice I would give.

Second advice is taking advantage of the typical directness of Dutch people. Dutch people are known for being very direct in their communication, which sometimes can be experienced as harsh. Though, at the same time, that also opens up the door for the counterpart to be very direct to them and that is a very unique style in working together, which can be very effective. There is a lot to learn from that way of working, so although on the one hand it can be very offensive to experience for the first time, it can also be a very valuable experience in leadership.

What risks have you taken throughout your career and how did they help you get to the level you are at?

Let’s start at the beginning of my career. I graduated, interviewed multiple companies in the Netherlands, but then I decided I wanted to go abroad and, more specifically, wanted to work in the US region. At the same time, my girlfriend wanted to move to the Caribbean. In the end, I moved to the Caribbean without having a job. I had a lot of conversations in the Netherlands, so I could have easily gone for a very good job, but decided I was going for a change. Eventually, within two months, I got a job, and started at EY being part of the US zone, which set me up to do a couple of years’ consultancy, giving me a very broad experience in running business and business management.

Every step in my career I’ve not really planned for it, but I just have a lot of confidence that if I will make a move, I eventually will get where I want to be. That is, for me, one of the risks that I have taken. Is there any other angle you are looking for, because there is risk in everything, there can also be risk in decision-making, what we’re doing, etc.?

Obviously, it’s an incredibly open question and I think that’s a great example of really pushing outside your comfort zone, and having confidence in yourself that it will work out and that you will get what you want out of it.

For somebody at your level, you’ve got to where you are relatively quickly - I hope you agree with me. I’m a little bit intrigued because to have the title and the responsibilities you have, it would probably usually take a lot of people longer and I just wondered if there was anything there that you might have done differently that made you where you are now?

I don’t often speak about it, I don’t like saying, ‘yes, it went fast’, because I think everybody develops in their own career at their own pace. But the difference here is that every time when I was considering something in my career or was talking about a move, I was very explicit about what I wanted in my career, and as soon as I got an opportunity, I would go all in. It’s the confidence that I know I will get there that helped me to grow very fast.

As humans, we have a tendency to be a bit risk averse and doubt at the moment we get an opportunity; I barely doubt when I get opportunities, I just have confidence. As long as it suits my passion and what I like to do, I go for it and take on the challenge, while being humble and acknowledging I need to work hard to make my next role a success. That attitude helped me in my career progression so far.

What advice would you give to aspiring leaders?

Determine what you want and go for it. That’s something applicable to everyone, not necessarily only for leaders. Be in the driving seat of what you want. More specifically for leaders, my advice is, understand and acknowledge that leadership in itself is a craft. I didn’t realise that too much when I started in my career. You can become very good in any technical function or area of expertise, but leadership is an expertise in itself and you need to play an active role in mastering that domain of leadership. This means you need to learn it, you need to invest in it, you need to talk to people, you need to get your experiences and, most of all, try to actively be aware of what is required to be a leader.

I think that’s the most important advice, because you will see, in the first couple of years in your career, it is more about your proactive mindset, the way you spot opportunities and go for it. But the higher you come within an organization, the less functionally involved you’re going to be. It’s going to be more about strategic discussions and about leading people, and I think on that part we often forget that leadership is not something that is just there, you need to actively develop it.

Who is the most inspiring person in business for you and why?

I split this one in two. For me, first when you talk about business, the type of profiles that inspire me are, for instance, Elon Musk. If you talk about visioning, if you talk about belief, that is what this guy is all about. Jeff Bezos for me is the same type of guy. What makes them special is that they dare to focus on the real long-run over the short-term, especially when being pressed by external factors as a consequence of being on Wall Street and stuff like that. It is very impressive that they are able to hold on to that vision, go for it, go against all current and eventually build a super big business out of it.

That for me is very impressive. It’s like they’re almost a couple of years ahead of us, thinking about not what’s happening now, but living almost five years in the future, so they understand where we need to be as an organization in the future and move towards it. For me, those guys, when you talk about risk profiling, daring to do something, be confident in what you’re able to do, those are very good examples.

On leadership, which is the second element of inspirational people, I find Simon Sinek very inspiring. The way he looks at leadership and just the constant flow of one-liners that that guy shoots, always being very accurate and very true, is very impressive in every element. He said, ‘leadership is not a licence to do less, it’s a responsibility to do more’. It’s all centred around what do I do as a leader, and how do I drive, really creating the purpose in an organization.

Another interesting one for me is the CEO of Alibaba, Jack Ma Yun, I find the guy very impressive. Not often known for it, but he always said that he built his business on the motto of only trying to find smarter people around me and making sure that these people make his job as easy as possible. He is not often known and quoted for that, but that spirit of, if you want to be a good leader, don’t try to be the best, just try to have the best people around you, I find that very inspiring.

We actually encourage our candidates to read Start with Why by Simon Sinek, as it’s an awesome way of looking at things for sure.

While we continue to face the realities of COVID-19, how have you seen your approach to Finance?

It’s a good question and there are two elements. First, from the business-orientated side, which is not only Finance, it stressed the need for agility, which was a journey we were already on in fast moving consumer goods. The changes are picking up, the trends are becoming more influential, so there was already a need to become more agile, and for me, COVID just accelerated it. For instance, in Finance, when talking about practical decisions on where to invest, due to COVID, food service was going to be locked down for the next x months, while retail was going to boom. So we decided to completely take all our investments from food service and push everything on retail. Those are very disruptive changes to make, because obviously you have contracts, you have marketing plans, you have people investing in there, but it shows that if you’re agile, you will profit in the long-run from those decisions. From a business side, this was my key learning and one we still are trying to apply every day, the way you approach innovations, the way you test and learn on your strategy, I think COVID was showing us once more how fast the world can turn 180 degrees and what you need to do as a business.

The second way COVID affected us as a company was through its impact on people. I have not seen something before that was so influential on people’s energy level and mental stability in my life. In the sense that people all of a sudden realised how important it is to have connections and how those connections are a very important part in our day-to-day business, although we never actually talk about it or recognise it in that way. For me, when talking about leadership, it showed the importance once more of being close to your people, making extra effort for them, which goes in very simple terms as just meeting up one-on-one in person, making sure within the team they have the cross-functional check-ins, making sure you have coffee chats with people outside of your own direct lines. Very simple things, but the effort you make in ensuring that people remain connected and the importance you give to relationships among co-workers can have a big impact on someone’s mental health and happiness. This was once more highlighted to me due to COVID.

Thank you to Darren for speaking with our Director - Finance, Hannah Mallia.

If you'd like to learn about how EMEA Recruitment can help your with your Finance Recruitment needs, speak to one of our dedicated team members today

Views and opinions contained within our Executive Interviews are those of the interviewee and not views shared by EMEA Recruitment.

Thank you for joining me today for an Executive Interview. As an intro, Lauren is currently Head of Education and Training at Squirro, which I believe is one of the most exciting emerging technology companies in today’s market. Would you like to introduce Squirro as a business for our audience, Lauren?

Of course! So, Squirro is a dynamic tech start-up that focuses primarily on the development of AI - artificial intelligence -driven solutions, and when we talk about AI-driven solutions, the core solution that we have at the focus of our product suite is an Insights Engine. Now, this is a term that I don’t think everyone is 100% familiar with, yet! I am convinced that many of us have our own preconceived idea about what it may be, but as a concept and a term per se, it is still relatively new. So, let me clarify that first…

An Insights Engine is a platform that makes key enterprise insights accessible to users when they need it. It combines cognitive search with machine learning capabilities to provide timely data that delivers actionable insights. It is a fundament to what we offer as part of an extensive product suite and our ‘vertical specific’ augmented intelligence solutions. There are a variety of these, namely insights apps, and these work for specific industries with specific use cases. Examples would be sales insights, marketing insights, service insights and risk insights.

Coming from my side as a consultant who is in the BI & Data market all hours of the day, I find Squirro so relevant and the thing that I really like is how much of a focus Squirro puts on the right insights to the right/relevant person, at the right time, which, in the world of data today, is so invaluable and I’d say it’s the biggest conundrum organisations try to solve. Most organisations are still trying to solve where data should belong, and as a cause effect to this, what the right or most relevant data would be depending on what their data-driven objectives are.

As Head of Training and Education, would you mind describing what your typical day-to-day position involves and what excites you most about working for a company like Squirro?

Of course, as the Head of Training and Education, I’m responsible for the conceptual learning design and development of the educational content that we offer to partners and clients; that is my primary responsibility and this comprises of many different tasks, depending on the core educational task in focus. One day, I could be starting the consultancy and conceptualisation of a training program that trains end users on their integrated Squirro solution, and on another I may be developing a social media campaign that invites the industry to understand more about what lies at the heart of our AI-driven solutions.

What I’ve also noticed is that, given our own developmental status as a start-up, there seems to be an organic movement around the need to build up a cross-functional learning culture within our own established parameters. So, even though my responsibility is very much making sure that our partners and clients understand what Squirro does, and that they’re fully equipped to be able to implement our product, I’ve noticed that the more we grow and develop as a company and as a product, there is a hand-in-hand organic growth that comes with also looking at creating a learning culture within.

I think that the pandemic has strongly contributed to this necessity as well, in that, although people are still working together in roles as a collective company, the siloed working patterns have simultaneously pushed us to prominently notice that, as a growing enterprise, there is a noticeable need to educate, communicate and nurture continuous knowledge transfer.

Therefore, I am constantly in touch and collaborating with the knowledge experts at the heart of our company. I’m not technically educated to the extent that they are, so our courses and our training come from the experts, and I collaborate a lot with the teams and work on content expansion with third parties as well.

Wow! Certainly a lot more than one would think goes into Training & Education. There are so many different facets to what you have just mentioned goes into your day-to-day role Lauren, and I can’t even begin to imagine how you split your day up among those various tasks. But, among all of what you have just mentioned, what would you say is the most rewarding or exciting aspect to your role and what you do?

I’d say what excites me most maybe comes from a personal drive that I’ve always tried to ensure is present in my professional career, and this drive is visible at Squirro in my colleagues, in their passion and, in particular, in the passion and drive of the CEO.

I’ve worked in a lot of large organisations, small organisations, both internationally and locally, and upon reflection, I would say that I think we tend to try and seek what we see in ourselves, in others. This professional stimulation consequently sparks a natural sense of excitement and fuel when working.

I am a hard worker, too, and I thrive from being in an environment with likeminded people. I don’t enjoy being in an environment where people don’t want to work or there is a visible resilience to really getting stuck in. And, luckily, it is not like that at Squirro; it’s very much about bringing your passion, making sure that you put in the work and, ultimately, reap the rewards of being able to navigate success together, and that’s what I value! This is mirrored in the supportive encouragement from my colleagues and the open culture.

What also excites me is the technology, or the results of the combination of technologies. As a linguist, I think that the fusion of natural language processing, machine learning and everything that has to do with linguistics really energizes me and spurs me on to learn more about the field.

So, that’s what excites me, but I think the reward itself reverts back to why I started in this field and maybe my own professional journey through learning and education; being able to provide and offer a possibility of empowerment, which learning fundamentally is. Learning is about growth, it’s about control, it’s about responsibility, and it’s being able to create an opportunity for someone to undertake that.

Everything that I do is about providing the possibility for people to train, to learn more and, despite how cliched the expression may sound, knowledge is power, and this power fosters change on various levels. Primarily, it is cognitive development, but it is also an emotional and social one, and we see that again with the importance of technology and the necessity to push for the importance of using AI-driven solutions, as well. I strongly believe that no one ever has regrets about learning something, but they always have regrets about not learning it, so that’s what’s rewarding for me.

I’m also quite creative, and being able to push my own boundaries and think about cognition obviously as a core is stimulating. Is there a difference between how we approach learning in a corporate environment for maybe arts and humanities? And how we approach tech? And can you umbrella everything under the same learning modalities? I think being able to explore that and the interaction patterns nowadays, as well with the whole push of social learning, social media and organic knowledge exchange, that’s a richly rewarding component of my role.

I must say I really buy into a lot of what you have said there in so many different ways. Being from South Africa myself, I have always loved the core of what Nelson Mandela’s beliefs were, in that education is the most powerful tool that can be used to change the world.

I also am so fascinated by how your role/field ties into tech, despite, at a glance, seeming so far away from tech, when it is actually so closely aligned, as you mentioned. Touching on natural language processing and how that ties into linguistics – but, as well, constantly changing as a result of the changing environment and use case for it.  

Yeah, it’s certainly something that is being explored more and more, and I think that’s what makes it challenging but rewarding, at the same time!

Speaking of rewards, Squirro has been up for some awards as well, I believe, and, if I am not mistaken, there’s been three most recently that you’re certainly quite proud of?

Yes, they seem to be having a lucky streak, or maybe it’s just a little bit of recognition for the investment that’s gone into the product over the last few years. It has certainly been a culmination of effort, blood, sweat and tears, for a while.

Let’s start with the biggest award. So, this year, Squirro was recognised as a visionary on the Gartner Magic Quadrant for Insights Engine, for the first time! Now, this is obviously huge, given all the other players that are listed on the quadrant and many people will assuredly be asking when hearing this, ‘oh, they’re recognised as a visionary, what is a visionary?’ 

Gartner themselves define visionaries as combining their understanding of the Insights Engine market with strength and innovation. So, they say that we are suitable for organisations who are looking to modernise and transform themselves by tackling familiar problems in new ways, and I think this has been proven in the success that we’ve had in building relationships with companies and partners that are really curious about how our AI can be put to work to gather data, search intelligently, deliver analysis, contextualise that analysis and visualise the data that’s been found. Plus, ensuring, as you said at the start of the conversation, that you’re delivering the right insights to the right people to aid their efforts in trying to find opportunities – where 80% of the time, those opportunities are found in completely unused data, whether it be structured or unstructured.

Amazing! That is serious recognition and certainly well deserved. It almost seems like you guys have got the golden key to unlocking organisational data potential, and the beautiful thing about it is that it’s across so many different industries and domains, as well. Second to that is that AI is a field that is very broad, and often a misunderstood field that still has a long way to go before organisations can say, with a degree of certainty, that they know how to use it in all ways possible and beneficial 100% of the time. To have that as your core product and for it to work so well is impressive.

It is, and even if you silo search behaviour and think about that, looking at enterprise search and how you use search on a daily basis - for the majority of end business users, I think only about 3% or 5% are using advanced search. People don’t know how to really find that information, so that’s why it’s so inevitable and almost mandatory that there is this type of technology to be able to provide people with the insights that they need.

Exactly, and in addition to the Gartner award, there was also the Asset Triple A Award as well for Best Digital Collaboration Project, I believe?

Yes, we won that, and a combination of awards. Triple A is an American institution that does global research around companies that display innovation excellence. So, we won the 2021 big innovation AI excellence award in the natural language processing category for Best Digital Collaboration Project, in partnership with Synechron, Standard Chartered Bank and SC Ventures, for our work on client insights projects.

Now, just to tell you a little bit about that, the solution itself combines the vision of Standard Chartered’s global banking team, the business domain knowledge of Synechron and, obviously, Squirro’s Insight Engine technology to be able to deliver frontline sales with created client insights, extracted from both internal, external, unstructured data, to unlock new opportunities.

I can’t tell you how many organisations I speak to on a day-to-day basis that really struggle to align corporate strategy, as well as how to best achieve the KPIs driven from that strategy through the use of insights from data. To many, it still seems a mystery and a mess at the best of times, so I would say it is almost like you guys have showed up at the perfect time!

Time will tell!

Very exciting indeed. The world of emerging technologies and emerging markets is fascinating, but for you, with regard to education and training within this field (which I already feel is so niche, as you and I have discussed on quite a few occasions), why do you feel this area you are working in is so important in today’s emerging tech market? And how do you feel companies should be looking to leverage Education and Training to its full potential in today’s dynamic market?

I think there’s a multitude of answers. I think what we may place prominence on is that AI, machine learning and data are key contributors in an emerging, but ever evolving field. They are not necessarily at the start of an emerging journey, but in some ways, from a knowledge perspective, it could be labelled as being that. There is a presumed and unspoken assumption that those active in these fields, especially those that are thinking about implementing some sort of AI or data-driven approach, is that they have quite a deep-rooted understanding of what these terms encompass, as well as their possible applications and how they should be applying them.

When, in reality, with experience, we’ve seen that this is one of the biggest challenges that comes with selling this type of software and technology, and it’s about supporting the development of a strategy that comes with this ambiguity, and misrepresentations around the terms and their application. It goes back to language once again, and investing in the beauty of these technologies and how you can’t do that without having a semantical understanding of the words themselves and their uses.

It frequently occurs that our delivery team or engineering team has to go in and clarify the difference between AI, machine learning, and what an Insights Engine is and how it can be used. There is an ever-pushing requirement for training and education in general, in the field.

As for the future of education and training? I mean obviously the pandemic has had a huge impact on answering that question, in maybe a way that I would not have answered it a few years ago. I think that Ed Tech is transforming learning and the rapid acceleration of digital transformation in the past year has put Ed Tech in this focus at the very heart of learning.

Technology helped improve content before. I mean, everyone was looking at how technology can be used to improve the content and we’ve been doing that for a good decade, prior to the development and the emergence of the pandemic. Despite that, it didn’t really change the way we consumed the content.

Recent digital innovation and the propelling prominence now of tech is really changing the way that we learn. I mean, you can take it from every level. From teachers who were forced to put that into everyday use when schools were closed, or trainers or corporations who are working with those currently training and needed to educate in a home office format. They were thrown into taking these linear paths that could no longer be implemented in the workplace and asked to make more customisation, provide more blended opportunities, show that there’s social collaboration - because there is not much collaboration going on elsewhere.

Given that, and being asked to do that digitally, students and trainees have become far more empowered. You can almost manage your cognitive load ten times better than you could prior to that. You have the ability to say, ‘okay, I want to step out of that’, ‘I don’t feel comfortable with what I have absorbed’, ‘let’s re-watch that video’, or ‘let’s take part in that webinar or workshop a little bit later because I’ve already done this’. It seems that there is far more empowerment on the side of trainees and learners nowadays because of this digital push.

Do you feel that, although it’s empowering, there are some dangers with this change as well, especially when we think of the social aspect of learning?

Very much so. I mean, you can even go back to the Socrates times of a teacher transmitting preparations and standing at the blackboard, and realise that you can’t replace an in-person experience. Some might argue against it, but I still think that you need that emotional input in a passive way. There is quite a lot of popular courses on Coursera or Future Learn about digital body language, and it is questionable in itself, but I think that you can’t replace physical human interaction and the positives that are married to it. I think there should be a balance; it shouldn’t all be digital.

We’ve had this crazy year that no one ever saw coming, but would be quite happy to see the back of - how do you feel the general workplace will have changed once we finally emerge from this global pandemic?

I think if you had asked me that question three or four weeks ago, I would have given you a different answer, but I’ve read a lot of things quite recently about the trend for so many people being in this momentaneous phase of romanticising the past. The daily drives to the office, the productive face-to-face meetings, stress-free business travel, and I think it’s quite a healthy component of the emotional processing that we need to go through, especially when experiencing a pandemic. I think, because of that, a lot of us will really emerge with a more realistic expectation on how to work and how to balance our workload, and I think that will benefit people that were really unable to do it prior to the pandemic as well.

From the recruitment perspective, it’s certainly also brought around its joyous moments with regards to interviews, as an example. Which has brought me to the question of wanting to ask you what the best or worst interview experience you’ve ever had was?

It is a really interesting question; I can’t say that my interviews have ever been bad. I mean, they’ve all been unique, and I think with every interview you have the opportunity to reflect on what went well, what went badly, or what could have gone better, and as much as interviews are hopefully supposed to be the start of new chapters and larger chapters, I think they’re always the start of mini chapters, as well. Do not get me wrong, it is not like I would like to go and aimlessly do 15 interviews, but I always feel that you do have these really intensive opportunities of reflection that you wouldn’t get at other points of your life.

To answer that question, I’d say that probably my worst one was being let down by my own ability to read people, because I think I’m quite good at reading people and reading how people have maybe responded to something I said; as well as trying to pre-empt the outcome of the situation. There was one interview where I thought that it had gone extremely well and it hadn’t, so I think that that was probably one of the least enjoyable experiences I have had.

You’ve obviously been living in Switzerland for some time now - it’s one of our main markets at EMEA Recruitment - and I just wanted to hear from you on why you would consider Switzerland an ideal place to live?

Again, a good question. I think ideal - it’s the word ideal - as we know, ideal for one person is not necessarily ideal for another, but I think in terms of maybe standard sort of tick boxes, then it would be a flat out yes.

I think that, personally being enveloped in a vibrant city, towering alps and lake-lined horizons each morning you wake up means there’s certainly little to complain about. The thing that I enjoy the most is being surrounded as well by so many different nationalities. I like that you can stand in a queue waiting for your coffee and you can hear five different languages simultaneously, that you can, without any major concerns, send your child to school and they are provided with a good education, an opportunity to have a voice. I certainly would say that, for me personally, it is a very ideal place to live.

The natural beauty to Switzerland maybe does tie into how enjoyable life can be outside of work, and a lot of people have written many books, participated in podcasts, etc. to discuss this thing we all like to call the healthy work-life balance. I was just curious to know, how do you like to relax outside of work and what approach would you say you adopt to achieving this healthy work-life balance?

I think that this one certainly comes with years of experience. I think you learn to acknowledge more and more the importance of trying to have that balance, and it may coordinate itself with certain stages of your life and what you personally place emphasis on. I think that people who are extremely career driven and career focused may be less inclined to be open to encouragement around the importance of finding that balance. And, in this respect, the pandemic has helped a lot of people realize that they need to look at what is important and bring this balance into their life.

Personally, I have experienced the positive and negative of maybe spending too much time or too much focus on work and then missing out on certain elements that maybe I should have dedicated a little bit more time to, at that particular point. However, it’s always that double-edged sword of maybe it was supposed to be like that at that time to go to the next step, so I think it’s about trying to look at the momentary and consciously assess what should be important at this stage.

And, given that I do have a family and a small daughter, I try to remain with that focus and invest my time wholeheartedly at work when I am at work, and then try to ensure that, out of work, I can give her the attention that she requires and deserves, obviously.

I think that’s where most people, particularly early on in their career for the most part, struggle to find that balance. When you are in the formative years of your career, it is difficult to make the distinction of work is work and when you are outside of work, it’s time to do the things for you, as well as the surrounding people in your life that depend on you.

I think sometimes some people have learnt the hard way. I speak to a lot of senior role models who have often come out with regrets about not having done it differently. It’s okay if one person vocalises this, or if it’s two people, but if you have multiple voices that are expressing the same kind of concern or narrative around trying to place the focus on knowing what’s important, then I think it’s only right that you start looking at doing that for yourself.

Out of interest, do you have any books, blogs, podcasts that you’re currently busy working through that are really interesting and you’d like to mention, and perhaps why?

I think nowadays there’s a lot of pressure on people to read blogs and listen to podcasts. I like music, I love music! I like to seek a lot of comfort in lyrics and I used to read a lot of poetry as an undergrad; I think it comes with the territory of studying languages. But as I got older, I started to favour musical expression more.

I certainly like to read though, don’t misunderstand me. I try to read every day at least a little just to expand my own mind and, when I do, I like to read about countries and the foreign. At present, I’m reading AI Superpowers, China, Silicon Valley and the New World Order and also the other book that I sort of chop and change between is The Gendered Brain; this one’s a new neuroscience that shatters the myth of the female brain. Talking about the hysteria around women and women’s brains, stereotypes, ‘whack a mole’ theories.

What sort of music do you like listening to?

My taste is quite eclectic, it goes from rock, to dance, to classical - a wide spectrum.

If there was one piece of advice you could offer your younger self in your career, what would it be?

I think this is the hardest question. I’m a huge believer in trying to embrace what’s given and what you have to strive for, but I think that if it came down to it, it may be advising myself to choose the right role model. Try to focus on the bigger picture, and really give yourself the opportunity and chance to network more, to find that right role model, to grow more, to learn more from the right people.

Thank you to Lauren for speaking to us.

Views and opinions contained within our Executive Interviews are those of the interviewee and not views shared by EMEA Recruitment.

What have you learnt as a leader over the course of your career?

For me, there has very much been a pre and a post FMCG giants experience. Both P&G and Unilever have been great business schools. These companies really invest in you, but I believe you grow the most by being able to put what you get taught into practice in different environments. Test, fail, learn, to shape yourself in terms of who you want to be as a leader.

The two main learnings for me versus the conceptions I had in my early career is first that leadership is not about prestige and so much more than the size of the team, or the size of the business. It’s about the business challenges to overcome, the stakeholders, the network you need to influence, and rallying people behind you on a common vision, goal and objective, and this can be done at any level of the organisation.

The second one is when I think about the impact of a Finance leader or a CFO. I see that it now goes beyond what maybe it used to in the past. Of course, success is about delivering concrete results, but for me it is also about making sure that when those results are delivered, the organisation and every single individual has a sense of pride and belonging. The role of a Finance Manager is key in ensuring that there is a solid performance management structure in place starting from the top, and that throughout the goal setting exercise, every individual is clear in their contribution to the business. “What are the two or three big things that I am going to do to enable the organisation to succeed?” 

Enabling that as a leader is key, and very rewarding! The role that I have seen myself play in making that happen has evolved.

So, it’s about making everyone feel as though they have a part to play, whether they’re junior, an Accountant, or a Finance Director?

Exactly, it’s beyond just performance management in the strictest sense of the term, like, “are we on track or not?”, but really taking a more holistic view on, “do we have the organisation behind us to try and deliver on our goals? Are they clear on their objectives, are they motivated, do they have the tools?" Setting the objectives and enabling the organisation to go and reach them. It may be more relevant the more senior type of roles you take on, but the thinking is applicable at every level.

So my point is, you think you have that vision of what leadership and performance management is about, because you’ve learnt it in these amazing business schools - and I’m super grateful for these experiences - but I think I learnt more taking that toolbox and fine tuning it in different companies. That has shaped me more and enabled me to make bigger leaps as a Finance leader in recent years.

What changes have you seen to the employment market in Switzerland over the years and what do you think have been the drivers for these changes?

I spent the first four years of my career in Switzerland and then I went abroad for 11 years, but I stayed in touch with connections and friends, so I have never been too far away. As part of the life choice we made last year (relocating the whole family back to Switzerland), I’ve noticed both personally, and by discussing with recruiting firms or head hunters, that while the market was already competitive, it has become even more so.

Switzerland is a small country, but quite a significant market. It’s extremely attractive in Europe and worldwide due to the quality of life, salary levels and senior positions with a lot of international HQs, but you also have a lot of larger companies that have gone through transformation and cost savings programmes, so people are all of a sudden back on the job market but not necessarily keen on relocating. I think there is definitely a disconnect between availability of jobs versus demand, which has made the market extremely competitive and put pressure on overall compensation/salary levels over recent years.

My other observation is that the job market in Switzerland remains a less transparent market, in the sense that a lot of recruitment is done via network. Maybe I am answering one of your other questions, but in terms of tips on starting your career in Finance, etc., I see networking as being key. Even if you don’t like it for career driving purposes, at least do it for yourself; do it to build your skills, to be exposed to other thoughts. There are many great resources out there to learn and to grow, but I think keeping a good network in Switzerland in particular is really key.

Absolutely, 100% agree. It makes sense to move onto the career advice question. So, networking is clearly one piece of advice that you would give someone starting out, but what else would you suggest?

I think the first thing is to see the Finance career as a marathon, not a sprint. It is particularly relevant for people who are brought up in big multi-nationals that foster a very competitive environment. A lot of energy is spent on planning for your next move or promotion, but take a step back and really take time to plan a succession of roles that make sense, and that will give you the foundations to build the career you want in the long-term.

For example, I didn’t see production controlling as something really attractive at the beginning of my career, but it could have cost me my last appointment to not really have that hands-on experience. Lantmännen took a bit of a bet when they hired me as Division CFO, because they had a challenge with getting their overall Supply Chain performance management structure in place. Me not having a significant experience in production controlling/production environment was a key discussion topic throughout the recruitment process. I am grateful the company still put their trust in me, loved every bit of the journey and felt I made an impact, learning loads along the way. So, really think about a variety of experiences to build yourself as a well-rounded leader if, ultimately, it’s a CFO type of role you are aiming for.

The second one is less Finance-relevant, but maybe what we don’t see enough within the function is people taking time to invest in broader, universal skills; storytelling, influencing, presentation. These are key leadership skills, and still too many members of the Finance function are not able to boil down very clearly what the issue is and what they’re going to do about it. A good test is always: what would you say to the group CEO or Chairman of the Board if you bumped into them in the elevator and they asked you, “hey, what about this?”

You need to know your business figures and drivers, know what the one or two main issues are (or breakthrough opportunities, or risks) and really be clear about how to address them. It is worth investing time quite early on in the whole storytelling and presentation skills.

The third one is, regardless of your job in Finance, be in touch with your stakeholders and understand what their needs are. Don’t just take your game plan or what has been handed over to you and go ahead. First, spend your first 60 days in your new role getting in touch with your stakeholders, building that relationship, understanding what the two or three main things you can do to add value and to make those contributions to the business are. Prove yourself and earn that trust so that you’re not just seen as the Finance guy that occasionally they will run numbers by, but you are really the business partner that they can’t live without.

What excites you about working for Stäubli?

Funnily enough, despite being Swiss, I have never worked for a Swiss company in my 15+ years career, so I’m particularly happy about that. Stäubli is known as a hidden Swiss champion, and it’s been around since the 19^th century. It was founded in Horgen, a beautiful place by the Zürich lake. They have a workforce of about 5,500 people worldwide, operating in around 30 countries.

What excites me the most is that, after 15 years in FMCG and food manufacturing, it gives me an opportunity to operate in and learn from a brand new industry. This is exactly the type of challenge I was chasing with this relocation.

I’m the CFO for the Global Robotics Division, and the other thing that really excites me about the job is that I’m coming in right at the start of a new strategy and business plan cycle, so it’s great to be part of that journey.

It’s also high growth, which is refreshing after working in more stable categories; we’re looking at a completely different pace and I am also in a more global role compared to my last job, with China being the biggest market.

On a separate topic, how do companies reduce bias in the hiring process?

I think it all starts from an intentional strategy or tone from the top. Unilever is a great example. They’ve gone through a huge programme and are looking at fantastic results. They have managed to achieve a great balance, at least from a gender diversity perspective. I think it has to start from a well-defined strategy, but for me, diversity goes beyond gender.

It’s also about embracing different professional backgrounds, cultures and nationalities, which requires companies to be willing to expand the resources pool that they tap into to find talent. I still feel many companies think that they require candidates to have industry experience, that they need the resource to already be located close by, etc., but I feel that this really restricts the talent pool. 

In Finance specifically, I don’t believe you need so much industry experience. What makes a good CFO ultimately is not necessarily related to the type of industries that you have been working in, it is really about the learning agility, drive for value creation, and some of the other core functional leadership skills that you are able to demonstrate.

What’s great with LinkedIn is you have people that can apply from all over the world. I understand that it is hard to go through all applications, but in my previous company’s leadership team, we managed to hire from many different backgrounds and nationalities, and it really added to the overall performance – and credibility - of that management team.

Then, on gender diversity, I think it takes interventions and courage to make a step-change; for example, to open more roles for 80%, instead of 100%. A parent who has learned to structure and prioritise because they have to juggle a lot of things in their life and wish to work 80-90%; that person may be as or even more effective than someone who is working 100%. Trying to balance that view and again opening the resource pool to tap into is key, but again, it takes courage.

What do you see as being the future of Finance?

I think all the pressure we’re seeing now with regards to cost savings, becoming more efficient, automation, standardisation, etc., will continue to be important. One attribute that I try to drive and that I will always expect from my team is a continuous improvement mindset. You need to make room for that and you need to be very intentional about it, because everybody is busy and it can easily be missed.

The problem is, we are all guilty of getting into this busy bee syndrome where you don’t have time to step back and think, “okay, am I adding value?”, “what is really going to matter for the future?”, versus, “we’ve always done it like this and I don’t have time to think about any improvement”. It isn’t about adding more resources, but about doing things differently, and this is, of course, easier said than done.

It will really require, again, strategy and tone from the top, either from the CFO or from the organisation to say, “yes, we can invest in simplification programmes, new tools, etc.” Instead of just slicing the cheese, as we say, where you just try to look for a small cost saving here and there, look at what are big breakthrough interventions you can make to reinvest your time into more value adding activities.

There are a lot of podcasts or trends that you see on LinkedIn or other resources about great tools, great software, etc., but the reality is a lot of the companies are still struggling with legacy systems, and so there is a disconnect between what is maybe portrayed as the future of the Finance function versus where a lot of the companies’ Finance departments are. It’s a hard one to tackle, because it’s going to take one time interventions to change in a lot of cases, instead of trying to puzzle old software, old systems and try to improve them bit by bit.

It really takes intentional programmes to succeed with standardization initiatives, automate non-value creating tasks, so that finance controllers or diligent leaders can reinvest their time into more value-added activities. Once you get there, we’re looking at Finance organisations that are maybe going to be a lot more agile or mobile and not necessarily assigned to one division or assigned to one specific task.

Finally, what is the best piece of advice that you have ever received?

That’s a funny one. A former colleague and a good friend of mine said something to me very early on in my career that stuck with me. I was extremely frustrated in a meeting and clearly showing it. At the end of the meeting, we both stayed in the room and he said, “you really need to work on that poker face”.

I’m a very competitive person; I like to win and I normally tend to show my emotions. I don’t know if you’re familiar with The Strength Finder concept (Gallup)? I am a competitor, but also score high on empathy and relating skills, which is an interesting mix. I might be competitive and have a big drive, but I’m also very close to how other people feel and emotions for me are extremely important.

I think, as a leader, you should stay true to who you are as an individual. Learn to become aware of when your attitude is going to be a problem and you need to maybe tone some of the aspects down, but I really firmly believe in diversity of styles and genuineness to get the most out of people.

So that comment from my colleague was great, because it really made me realise, okay, I need to really be intentional about finding that balance between what I can express versus keep for myself. I still tend to show my emotions, but I always have that comment in mind to keep me in balance.

Thank you to Guillaume for speaking with our Senior Consultant, Emma Feneley.

Views and opinions contained within our Executive Interviews are those of the interviewee and not views shared by EMEA Recruitment.

As someone who has been working in Switzerland and Germany for many years, what changes have you seen to the employment market, particularly within Data and Analytics?

When I started, Data Science was very niche in companies. It was found in either companies that had connections with North America, where Data Science was already well established, or for very special projects, where someone would need a very specific and specialised model.

That’s very different from where we are today globally, and so I think Data Science is seen in Germany and Switzerland as more of a general requirement, and even further it now is part of the strategy of the company. You’re not just an isolated individual doing work - building a specialised model at a bank or building a requested model for recommendation in e-commerce. 

I think Switzerland and Germany have almost caught up to the rest of the world, even at smaller companies like start-ups. Everyone now knows they need strong engineering and data from the beginning - it's not something you think about later, but rather you need to build your fundamentals in terms of data - but that's also because most start-ups and business models are now based around data. 

Since your degree was in Physics, what would your second career choice have been, and why?

In the UK and North America, Physicists often end up doing something else - not everyone ends up being a professor or a researcher in a lab. It used to be that Physicists went into Finance - hedge funds and so on, whereas now, Data Science is a big draw.

I think one of the big advantages of being a Physicist is that we are trained quite well in problem-solving, abstraction and simplifying. We value the concept of insights from a scientific framework, rather than blind modelling, which I perceive as being the difference between scientists and someone who comes purely from a Computing background. 

In terms of alternative careers, I took some courses that overlapped with Electrical Engineering, and have some friends and colleagues that did that, and I think that Electrical Engineering is a good balance between what you get in Physics and what you get in Computing. Of course, this was in a time when these things were more distinct. These days, almost everyone's going to take some Computing courses, even if they're doing pure Physics. But if you think of Electrical Engineering, it combines aspects of Physics and Computing, which give you an equally broad education like Physics, but with a more Computing connection. 

In terms of wider career choices, I think that most of us had a plan of becoming research professors and when that doesn't work out, then it's really how do you adapt. I think the more interesting question is how do people who intend on becoming researchers then adapt to the real world and that's actually something that's well-structured now for Data Science. There are Data Science programs in the UK and North America, and now there’s also one in Zurich that takes people with recent PhDs and take them through an intensive course to become Data Scientists. 

So that's now a fairly straightforward course of action for people with PhDs in Science or Engineering to immediately become Data Scientists.

When I was younger, the world was very different - it’s changed so much now that you can really learn anything thanks to the internet and the range of online courses. There’s just a great exchange of information - blogs and videos - I think it's much wider. I think your career and education are much more loosely linked than they were in my time. 

What are your personal motivators?

For me, it’s about doing something interesting. As we discussed before, I wanted to do interesting Physics and research. Obviously, there’s interesting research in industry, but my career didn’t follow that path. I became more of a practical, applied person and a leader, but I always try to find something that’s technically interesting, whether from a Computing point of view, or from a Data Science point of view, or possibly from a Physics point of view. 

You might ask how I could have Physics in the work that I do, but I used to do research on complex systems, and come up with systems that involved networks and social interaction, so you know how something becomes viral, or how you can use a network point of view to solve problems. For me, it’s about something that’s an interesting problem in itself. It could be a business problem, could be a Data Science problem and there needs to be a technical aspect of it as well. I also need the social interaction as part of a team or group - and it should also be a fairly social company.

What would you say is the most rewarding part of your role? 

Now that I’m in a wholly leadership function, I would say finding business value in Data Science - that’s our goal, that's our job to do that.

But as I hire younger people, and the age between them and me increases, I really derive satisfaction from seeing young people grow in my team and when I receive the thanks that really means a lot to me in that sense. 

As we said, with the internet and the amount of information out there, people can almost do anything right now with their background, as long as they're educated in some regard. It's wonderful to see how people tackle their careers, relating back to the question before. I think career opportunities are so much broader than when I came out of university. There’s a vastly greater choice, in terms of topics. So these days I get a great deal of satisfaction from seeing people be successful in my team.

Looking back through your own career, what would you say was your personal highlight?

If I were to choose one highlight, then I would say that it was changing the view on marketing attribution at eBay, because it was not just at eBay, but it was also more globally. 

Prior to that, people had last click attribution and multi click attribution with static models, but we showed that all of these were, in a sense, completely wrong. In effect, no different than doing something random - we showed that you need to build dynamic models and that you needed some concept of propensity to convert at the basis of that. The fundamental notion of this was that channels have no meaning; looking at the customer is most important. Putting those together was how we solved it at eBay and then I spoke about it globally.

I think that was the most rewarding and truly a highlight. Changing something globally and having an impact on the whole industry. Related to that, I find it interesting that you can make that change, you can talk about it and you still find people doing it the wrong way, even today. 

I think it’s ironic that going back to the beginning of my career, the opposite of what I was doing as a researcher was where I have ended up - in marketing! However, marketing analytics does actually provide some of the most difficult problems in Data Science. People typically think of deep learning, computer vision and AI , but the whole framework of how ride-hailing as an experience will transform cities, and how technologies such as autonomous vehicles will evolve with it. And of course, people: from the interview stages to my current day-to-day, I love the Diversity and enabling culture of Beat. Plus, I report into a strong female leader, which will be a good experience for me.

The real reason, though, is to enjoy the food and people in places such as Lima and Mexico City. Post-COVID, of course.

Thank you to Suresh for speaking to us.

Views and opinions contained within our Executive Interviews are those of the interviewee and not views shared by EMEA Recruitment.

Your career began when you joined PwC in Israel. How do you think your time in the Big 4 has helped you in your longer-term career and what are the benefits of a Big 4 background when you are recruiting? Any drawbacks?

The Big 4 is a great school - you get exposure to many industries. I worked with Pharma and Hi-tech, for example – working in high intense projects which help to develop and set your mind when you start your career. It gave me quite some tools to take through my career: technical understanding; to understand Accounting; read and understand a reporting standard; to understand what it means and how it influences the overall financials. It is very, very key. There are few people in the business world, even in Finance, who can articulate something like that. As you progress your career, it’s really important to be able to ask the right questions.

When we moved to IFRS 16 – about a year ago – the tools that I had brought from the Big 4 helped me to really understand how it impacts from a performance perspective.

When you work for the Big 4, you need to write down and allocate hours you spend for each customer/project – this gets you into a mindset that every minute counts. Your day must be very productive. I still use this today, reviewing the work I did versus what I set out to do and ensuring that my calendar has served a purpose.

The other experience that’s really important is the customer interaction. In the Big 4, if you progress well, you can be working directly with customers quite quickly; even from a young age dealing with executives, authorities, commerce office, etc. The ability to work and understand the customer and provide them with comfort is a great experience for when you start to move into more commercial roles.

The drawbacks are that time is limited, and you tend to be focusing on technical skills and less focused on the business. It can become more routine and a little limiting in certain cases, especially if you want to have a more commercial role.

You have now enjoyed over eight years working for Maersk. How did you keep your career varied and challenging during that time?

I have had seven positions in almost eight years, so I’ve been very fortunate. It has been a great experience and there hasn’t been a dull moment. It’s a fast-changing business environment and so you constantly have to reinvent yourself. You always need to be on top of the business environment – the company has a very ambitious vision and, in addition, the people here are very driven and talented, and the combination of those factors makes this journey really great.

The world has been unpredictable in recent years, which only adds interest to the job. COVID-19 has changed the future of the way we work; supply chain, the products we buy and the way we buy. Without a digital channel in consumer goods, for example, then it’s difficult to survive.

At Maersk, I have had the opportunity to work in four different countries, in different roles, with different functions and teams, and I find it really exciting. It may seem a long time to have been with one company, but the opportunity to keep growing personally and professionally is extremely rewarding.

In what ways does Maersk provide a rewarding environment for young Finance professionals?

I’m often jealous of the new joiners to the company who join straight out of university, as we have several programmes which rotate them and teach them different skills in a variety of functions. In general, what is great as a young professional is that Maersk offers a career path, rather than a just a role. The ambition level is up to you and the geography, function and division, too. You can build a picture around yourself from many different perspectives of the business. In addition, you get a mentor who helps you and builds you up as you progress along the career path. You also receive a lot of training along your growth path.

Even for me, I started in the Port business and now I’m in the Logistics business, and it was an eye-opener, as I hadn’t before seen the overall picture and how everything connected together. It’s great for an inquisitive person! You work with colleagues from all backgrounds and all over the world.

As a senior Finance professional by background and a business leader, what trends do you notice in world of Finance? What do you personally do to manage the changes?

I’m going to answer from a two-headed perspective. In the last year, I’ve become a ‘general manager’ and so I’ve learnt a lot more about the value of a Finance function. Finance is a profession that has evolved radically in the last few years. When I started, Finance leaders/professionals were just expected to bring the numbers and not so much the insight, whereas now it’s a given that you will be asked, “what insights do you bring to the table?”. This is while you also maintain all the basic, good and effective essentials – such as tax, compliance, reporting – which on their own are hard work. More and more, the notion in business is that Finance needs to work efficiently and maintain low costs to compete in a highly competitive industry.

In addition, the movement to BI and receive the credit they deserve.

In addition, I try to listen carefully and without bias – so using data as much as possible. Data is the only thing that’s objective in most cases. This helps me to make an objective decision.

I also learnt to communicate effectively. So, for example, in the same way that receiving a short video message from a friend can be more impactive than a text, taking short videos of you delivering business updates/successes can be more impactive and time efficient than a long-winded video conference call or long email.

Last, but not least, it’s important to have an ambition and a plan to achieve it – in alignment with your key stakeholders. Ensure that everybody is involved, focused and aligned to work towards it.

Can you tell us of an impactful experience in your career with a leader/manager? What did it teach you?

I had many impactful moments in my career. My most impactful was actually as a Manager myself. The more I grew up the ranks, the more I appreciated diversity, and realized how key is it to engage teams and to strength your management team. When we merge between the Moroccan and the Spanish organization, it was a great experience and insight on how two different cultures could bring so many benefits to the organization, by combining their strengths and creating a stronger organization. Furthermore, this really boosted engagement, as colleagues were interested to know more about the cultural aspects of their new colleagues, whether Spanish or Moroccan. Lastly, on a personal note, this is inspiring! We all carry our culture, whether business or personal, it is fascinating to see ways of looking at things.bition and a plan to achieve it – in alignment with your key stakeholders. Ensure that everybody is involved, focused and aligned to work towards it.

What do you do to manage your time effectively? How do you ensure that you maintain a good work/life balance?

I think that good work/life balance is relative to each person. However, as a Manager, if you are passionate about your work, you realise that work doesn’t end while you’re on holiday or during the weekend. That said, when I’m with my family, I try to ensure I’m fully present, not checking emails, etc., but will set time aside for essential work activities. For example, I will set time aside early on a Sunday morning or late in an evening to deal with work emails.

Thank you to Elad for speaking with our Associate Director, Jenny Callum.

Views and opinions contained within our Executive Interviews are those of the interviewee and not views shared by EMEA Recruitment.

How important do you think it is to have a career plan and, when making career moves, how much did this affect your decision-making process?

I think it is very important to have a career plan and, at the same time, I think it is equally important to remain flexible and adaptable, because my experience has been that the path to the dream job is not a straight line. What I believe is essential is to be very clear about what you ultimately want to achieve and start developing, as early as you can in your career, your perspective about that dream job, that ultimate goal in your career, so that the moves that you make in your professional journey are aligned with this objective. If I were to ask this question to someone earlier in their career, they may not yet be clear about what they ultimately want to achieve, and that is perfectly fine in the beginning of your career, but, as you progress, you really have to be thinking about that end-game, so you can build the relevant experiences along that path. In my career, I have been quite flexible in terms of roles, locations and industries, while I was also very fortunate to have great opportunities in the companies where I have worked, to build the competencies and gather the experiences that allowed me to become a well-rounded Finance professional and develop my leadership skills in the pursuit of my dream job.

What would be your advice to someone at an earlier stage in their Finance career, aspiring to be where you are now?

The advice is linked to the previous question; the first thing is to be very clear about what you want to achieve, and what your ultimate career and life goal is. The second one is to surround yourself with great people, and that will change along an individual’s career. Sometimes, it will be to follow a fantastic boss, other times it will be to join a team of high achievers that has a reputation for delivering high results, and, as you progress up in your career, it is about building great teams, formed by the best possible people, with skills and competencies that will complement your own.  The third piece of advice would be to look for stretch assignments and to get out of the comfort zone every time, thus being willing to struggle in the job, at least at the beginning, and have some failures, as these provide growth and learning opportunities. I believe that, if you don’t have failures, you are not aiming high enough and that applies to the jobs you decide to go after. For me, these jobs have provided the biggest learnings and were the most rewarding.

Often when we are recruiting roles in the Life Science sector, we are asked to find candidates within an industry background. Having made this transition yourself from a relatively different industry, how important do you consider this to be and what were the challenges for you in making that transition?

It is an interesting question, because, throughout my interviews to join DSM, in the Life Science industry, it never came up as a topic. I guess that is because Finance is not really industry-specific, so the transition that I have done myself and that I have seen other people do, joining DSM, it has not been extremely challenging. What I found that helped me was that I was coming from a B2B business, where manufacturing was an important element. I think transitioning without the manufacturing or the B2B experience would have been a far bigger challenge. Some of the challenges the industry has in Finance are the long product cycles (which is specific to Life Sciences), innovation, regulatory, IP, or very heavy capital investments, which, for a Finance leader, are important elements that I had to become familiar with very early on. The global reach and the interconnected markets are a key aspect of this type of business, especially in large corporations, and being able to navigate the global environment is very important as you transition into Life Sciences, so having had that global background would be crucial. Finally, it is a market that is seeing a lot of consolidation and M&A [mergers and acquisitions] activity, so having M&A experience prior to going into Life Science would certainly help.

What are the most common mistakes you see at interviews and what advice would you give to candidates in regard to interview preparation?

One of the most common mistakes I see at interview is precisely the lack of preparation, and understanding the company and the role that they are interviewing for deeply. Not having done some research about the interviewers and, today, with LinkedIn and other social media, it is very helpful to know about who you are speaking to. When I see that someone has checked my LinkedIn profile before the interview, I take it as a positive sign; I can see this person is doing their homework.  At the same time, if you have not done your homework about exactly what you are going to interview for and with whom, you do not have the same opportunities to highlight your strengths, or your fit to the role and the company. Similarly, if the candidate clearly articulates how this role aligns with their career plan and has thought through that, it shows me that the person has accountability for his/her own career and has made a conscious choice to be there at that interview.

The second issue is not asking questions, or not asking the right questions. In my interviews, I always leave ample time for Q&A by the candidate. I will reserve the last 15-20 minutes for the candidate to ask questions, and I rarely need the time! It is a missed opportunity to show your edge and your passion, to build the connection, and to show what is really important to you as a professional and individual.

The last thing that I would mention is not noticing how important a first impression is. The first handshake, the first smile, the first walk from the door to the room, or in the elevator... Be prepared before you even go into the meeting room and be aware of non-verbal communication. 

Looking back through your established career, what would you identify as a personal highlight?

If I had to choose one highlight in my professional career, that would be my experience in South America, as a Regional Finance Director. I arrived in the region in very turbulent times in some of the countries, particularly in Brazil where I was based. It was an internal move, so I was familiar with the company and the industry, but as soon as I arrived, I had to get into turnaround mode, divesting parts of the company and rebuilding the motivation of the Finance organisation that had been through a lot of changes in the two years prior to my arrival. I left after two-and-a-half years, having built a lot of new skills, a stronger leadership foundation and great confidence. Equally important, I was succeeded by someone from my team, which gave me huge satisfaction. If I think about the experience that has accelerated my growth as a leader in my career, it is definitely this one. It was probably the biggest stretch assignment I had in my career, because of the different culture, the broad scope of the role and the challenging business conditions.

What would you consider to be the most rewarding part of your current role?

By far the most rewarding part of my role as a leader has been seeing the people around me grow and develop. This was not the most rewarding part when I was starting my career as an individual contributor, probably not even as a young manager; what gave me most satisfaction at that stage was to solve problems, make an impact and to be recognised in front of senior management. In the last five to ten years, I get much more excitement and happiness seeing my teams solve those problems, making the right decisions without me being involved, and them being recognised for their contributions and leadership. The answer to this question has changed multiple times throughout my career and I am sure it will change again in ten years from now. It is important to find the professional satisfaction in different places as you move on in your career, to keep renewing your own motivation.

What would you consider to be the most important attributes for a successful Chief Financial Officer (CFO)?

I found this a tough question, as it forces me to look at other CFOs and also to do self-reflection about the sort of CFO I would like to be. 

I would refer to three aspects of the leadership of CFOs: the first one being communication. It is often underrated and not trained enough, especially for a CFO that has to translate numbers into operational and strategic insights, and decisions. An effective CFO must be able to present information to a variety of different parties, both internal and external, and do it in an impactful way.

The second one is having a strong and intuitive understanding of the business. It is impossible to become a CFO without strong competencies in Accounting and Finance, but that is not enough, definitely not today and probably not enough in the past, either. A good CFO must have comprehensive knowledge of how the business works, especially the commercial aspects. Commercially astute Finance leaders are rare, and those who can also navigate the commercial intricacies are the ones that can become very successful in their role.

Last and definitely not least is integrity, because, to the outside world, the CFO is seen as the guardian of the shareholder value and the stewards of the company. They must also be the internal conscience of the organisation and, in my opinion, it is critical for a CFO to have and to show this high level of integrity. Walking this fine line between supporting the business and, at the same time, making the right decision for the corporation is what distinguishes the CFO from other executives.

Due to the current crisis, we have seen a shift to more remote and flexible working styles, and most businesses believe this will be a permanent shift. How do you think this could impact Finance and any potential challenges?

I have personally seen the great benefits of flexible work, and the opportunity it offers to employees to balance better personal and professional life, look after their health, and the positive impact to the environment. I don’t conceive a future of working that will not have an enhanced level of flexibility than in the past. Broadly speaking, the main challenge I see in remote working concerns the culture and values of the company, and our ability to keep them visible and present in our daily jobs; it simply makes it harder to create a cohesive culture when the interactions with colleagues and leaders happen over the phone or video.

As far as the Finance function is concerned, a big part of the value that Finance brings, particularly in business partnering roles, is the ability to connect the dots, to manage risks, and to anticipate results and events before they even happen. In a remote set-up, the interactions are obviously a lot more limited, the opportunity to connect informally, to hear about a customer or supplier information, or even just have an ad hoc discussion with a colleague are far less, hence the value or the role of an effective Finance business partner may be limited, due to the lack of opportunities to get information and connect the dots.

Digital transformation is a key topic currently. As a Finance leader, how actively do you involve yourself in the implementation of these technologies, and what do you foresee as the possibilities and challenges for your Finance organisation?

I have been getting involved in this area for the last few years, but definitely not as much as I should. I am very committed to changing that in my new role, as I see a lot of value that can be created in the digital space, particularly in Finance.

There are some obvious possibilities, the low hanging fruit of digitalisation that many companies, including DSM, have jumped into: automation and robotics; digitalisation of reports; and advanced analytics. When we speak about digital Finance in multi-nationals these days, those topics are typically part of their digital agenda.

The next step in the digital roadmap should be the application of Artificial Intelligence and digital tools for predictive analytics. This is where I think Finance can add much more value than we do today: predicting the future, through data, and using the digital opportunities that we have in our hands to stop looking backwards only and start looking forward to help steer the business with new insights. 

With regards to the challenges, the first one is that sometimes we are still missing the overall vision of digitalisation for the Finance function, or it’s too broadly defined. It has so many elements and is applied to so many initiatives that I have not yet come across that very clear and compelling vision and roadmap that everyone can understand.

The second challenge is the gap between the current capabilities and those that are required in digital Finance functions, starting with myself! The younger generations will be able to drive those changes faster than we will, but there is still a clear gap.

The third challenge, certainly connected with my Finance role, is cyber security. The more digital we go, the more data is available in the cloud in digital formats and is accessible all over the world.  Therefore, the higher the risk of confidential information ending up in the wrong hands.

Thank you to Ramon for speaking with our Associate Director, Meriel Graham.

Views and opinions contained within our Executive Interviews are those of the interviewee and not views shared by EMEA Recruitment.