Gerard Sieben is the CFO & Management Board Member at Unibail-Rodamco-Westfield (URW) in Amsterdam. He has been with the business for over 13 years, having previously held roles such as Project Manager Finance and Finance Director.

What do you see as the biggest challenges for a) your business, and b) your own role over the next 12 months?

I think the biggest challenge for us in retail real estate is reinventing our future. A lot of people no longer believe in retail real estate. We are not the flavour of the month, so to say, for investors. I think we as URW proved that there is a reason to exist for large shopping malls. For destinations beyond shopping, like Disney, where you can spend the day or at least part of the day. But, of course, we need to find a way to monetize that, and to make it profitable and to grow again, as we have done over the past years, and also to prove to the markets that we are capable of doing so.

I think that that's the biggest challenge for us - to prove to the market that we have a reason of existence and that we will find new lines of income in the shopping centres we have.

What does that mean for your own role over the next of 12 months? What challenges do you see there?

The challenge is probably to stop reporting overly on the past and start dashboarding, being a partner to the business and support future decisions with data. With the pandemic in mind, we have to find a way to benchmark our past results, but also going forward with new lines of business - we need to show how this can be profitable and how these growth models can work, and I think that that's more a general challenge for CFOs at this time.

As financial people, we tend to compare everything with the past and report on the past. Considering the past year or whatever, that’s too late. The world is turning so fast and you have to look at the data of today and define what you can and change from working in the past towards looking at the future. We need projects based on the future and I think that that's one of the biggest challenges for me personally.

I know you have been office working during this time, however, how do you feel the workplace will have changed as we emerge from the global pandemic?

There is, of course, differences between individual people working. If I look at my team, if I look at our organization, we have a group of very professional people who know what they need to do and what they need to deliver, and this does not really relate to a certain space. So, it's fine for them to work from home. It's also fine for them to work at times where they think it's most convenient – no fixed office times. They can start at 11:00 and finish at 20:00 in the evening if they want to, or the opposite.

Companies who employ large groups of people will find themselves requiring less space, because there will be more flexibility. As for how a typical office will look like in the future, I think that's a challenge, because I’m not sure if working hours and large office spaces are the best solution. I think the office in the future will be much more a place where people gather, where they find out about new things, about important things, where they talk about challenges they have. It will be more for social interaction, which benefits the work as well, but also with the liberty to decide whether they want to come or not. Employees needed to be more efficient working from home; this requires more flexibility and I think, in the end, it will require less office space for the larger companies.

What have you learnt as a leader over the past 12 months?

I think you need to be open to changes and adapt easily. Specifically, for myself, what has struck me was the fact that, in the past, we used to rely on newspapers, internet and television for news. Today, I sometimes skip the news or the papers or whatever because I don't know what is the truth. You find so much information that you can't really judge what is right and what not.

As a leader, of course you have to manage your team to go through all this. To motivate your people to not worry too much, and to also accept what is and isn’t in their control. To keep the focus on the future and keep the positive mind on it, to create a working environment with time for non-work related chit-chat as well. So, flexibility I think is very important.

What does your organisation do to raise awareness around mental health and wellbeing?

We have set up a program called URW Academy, which provides trainings and courses related to work. Early last year, when the crisis started, we also introduced a number of trainings on wellbeing, on how to relax, how to organize your life, etc.

For example, when you have a Teams meeting and you don't necessarily need to be on screen, you could also go out and have a walk and listen in. There are plenty of these meetings where you just sit and listen and you need to participate, however, you need to understand what has been told and it's very easy to go out, to put in your ear buds and to just listen while you're having a walk outside.

What I got back off of my team members is that this was perceived very well and they liked it. Also, the wellbeing trainings received good feedback. I have a few people in my team who live in the centre of Amsterdam in a tiny apartment, and I can imagine you want to go out every once in a while.

How does your company work to retain high potential employees?

What we try to do is have frequent conversations with our people. Talk about what their aspirations are. How they see their future and how this aligns with what we have to offer as a company, in terms of training, in terms of next steps and possibly the ambitions to work abroad. Create an open communication, trust between manager and employee in which there are no (or little) surprises and next steps can be anticipated.

What risks have you taken throughout your career and how did they help you get to the level you are at?

I come from a totally different background, and I think the red line through my career, in my life, has always been that I'm not too worried about the far future; my horizon spans three to four years, then typically I want to do something new.

And I don't really care what that's going to mean - I'm open to all sorts of new things and their risks. At one stage in my career, I resigned from a permanent role to become self-employed without having an assignment yet. With the family relying on me as provider, it was a stressful period. However, I found a nice new position and I ended up working as a self-employed contractor for 12 years.

I tend to believe this was based on what I did, what I performed and the reliability I showed to people to solve problems, to come with unexpected solutions and things like that. I think that, in a way, worked for me and also the fact that I didn't really worry about the future. Some people are so worried about tomorrow that they that they don't live today – very philosophical, but I think it’s true.

What would you say was your secret to building a network or becoming that known person that people came to, because you were reliable, and you delivered and had innovative solutions?

I was quite early with having a profile on LinkedIn and, at that time, many people said, “What does it bring me?”, “Why should I do a LinkedIn profile?”, “I don't get it”, “I don't see the benefit of it”.
And I would explain that networking is not about needing something now or tomorrow. Networking is about getting to know people, doing things for people and, one day, it will get back to you. You don't know by whom, you don't know when, but it will happen. It’s about giving and not thinking about what you get back for it. And I think that's been my philosophy; if I can help someone, I would do so.

How did you plan out your career development path?

After quitting my bachelor’s, I spent a few years working in many different jobs. After a few years, I realized for me there's more in life than being a bartender or a taxi driver. At this point, some people get stuck and say, “Oh, but I don't have an education” and “I'm too old” and “I will never find another job”. I just took it on and evolved and started learning again, and accepted my first job as a Financial Controller without any experience, and that's 23 years ago.

It's not really that I plan ahead for three or four years and that I am constantly thinking about the next steps. It's more that I take on a new challenge and then, after a few years, you get very familiar to the processes and you end up doing the same thing over again, and that's where I have my scope for three or four years. The first year is exciting. You have to set up things. The second year you see that there's still improvements possible to what you did the first year and then, if everything goes right the third year, you start benefiting from what you did before that and after that, it gets routine and it gets easy.

And that's where I tend to lose my interest. As I told a colleague a few hours ago, for me, an exciting day is a day where things go wrong, where I have to make sure that I can fix things. If everything goes right, I'm bored, it's not that exciting. Sometimes, it's nice to have an easy day or an easy week. But, after a few weeks, I think of what could go wrong, because I'm happy to solve things and that's where I thrive.

Does that come from having a bit of a contractor mentality, maybe coming in to solve a problem and work on a particular project?

Yeah, I guess it's two-fold. In my early career, I was employed, but also for these time spans, I think my longest job was four years. Even as a contractor, after being contracted for URW for ten years, it was not one job. It was four or five assignments. So yes, I think it's related to that mindset that you want to solve things, that you want to take on new challenges and that I'm not too worried about new challenges.

What advice would you give to aspiring leaders?

The best piece of advice is that you have to listen to your people, to your colleagues. Be open and make sure that you don't get into this tunnel where you get too convinced of yourself. I think that happens to leaders when they are too long in the same space.

Accept criticism and understand that sometimes your spot has changed and that you have to evolve, or that it's no longer your spot. If you're a change manager and you get into a stable situation, then it's time to move on, because then it's no longer your thing. A manager who has to work in a stable environment has different skills to one that manages a lot of changes, and the other way around.

While we continue to face the realities of COVID-19, how have you seen your approach to Finance evolve.

Of course, cash is very important at the moment. In the past, we had the luxury that it was very easy to finance ourselves. And then it was very easy to approach banks to get financing. And we see that times have changed and that it's more difficult. I think that's an important one.

I think there's a lot of support. Government support for companies, which, at some stage, will end. And they have to support themselves again, but they also have to think about the consequences of today's support; if it's taxes, for example, that they have to be paid somewhere in the end.

I think Finance is always a bit conscious of a company and they have to create a lot of awareness of this and to make sure that all the people are not too negative, in periods where you need positivity -   but the other way around as well - that they are a bit more realistic in times where they are very positive and, for one company, it gives new challenges and exciting new opportunities. You have to adapt.

Who is the most inspiring person in business for you and why? Are you going to say Max Verstappen?

I was really thinking about him, because he is so focused and so convinced of his own abilities. If you look at him, he is so calm, especially under the pressure he was under. And, at some stage in his final race of 2021, I thought that was it, he is 12 seconds behind, there's no way he's going to win. And then something happens, it all turns, and in the last few seconds, he becomes world champion.

And then we all know this story about his father, who tried to be a Formula One driver, and the guy is so focused, he was successful at a very young age. He’s achieved an awful lot. It's almost like a superpower, but still the focus the guy has and the way a lot of people can relate with him, although they will never be drivers like him. To stay on your goal and be focussed, that’s really inspiring – he’s an inspiring guy, even though he’s only 24-years-old!

And then, finally - this is a just-for-fun question - do you have any hidden talents?

I used to have a drum kit and, although I never played in a band, I played at home for quite a long time, and I think I am still pretty good. I told my kids that whenever I would have an office big enough to fit a drum kit in, then I would for sure buy a new one.

A drummer is always a bit in the background. He's not in the front like the singer, but he’s always a bit in the back, supporting the rest of the band and making sure that they are on the same beat, at the same pace, and that they all stick in the same rhythm, and I think that's in alignment with the role of a CFO.

Thank you to Gerard for speaking to Georgia Wright, Associate Director in our Finance & Accountancy recruitment team in the Netherlands.

Views and opinions contained within our Executive Interviews are those of the interviewee and not views shared by EMEA Recruitment.

Rimmert van Luyn is the VP Global Transportation, Customs & Compliance and EMEA Operations at Hitachi Vantara. He previously spent eight years at Hitachi Transport System as the Director Europe and was the VP Global Transportation, Customs & Compliance at Hitachi Data Systems.

What does your organisation do to drive its sustainability agenda?

Hitachi’s slogan is, Hitachi Social Innovation is POWERING GOOD, which means we will devote all our energy to realize the good desired by people throughout the world, raise the quality of people's lives and build a sustainable society.

This is embedded throughout all Hitachi’s companies. The products we design and sell, our cultural values, our sustainability goals, and the double bottom line philosophy. Hitachi’s overall mission of Social Innovation is to deliver outcomes that benefit business and society. That’s our double bottom-line and it’s why Hitachi Vantara is in business. There are also examples that our sister companies like Hitachi Rail and Hitachi Energy are moving the business model towards sustainability.

Hitachi was also present at COP26 in Glasgow in early November, where we were a principal partner. Here, we mentioned strengthening our climate target to contribute to a net zero society, by achieving neutrality through our entire value chain, including production, procurement, and the use of products and services by 2050.

At Hitachi Vantara and, in particular, the Global Supply Chain Group, we have been able to book many successes over the last few years. We just published some articles recently: https://www.hitachivantara.com/blog/business-case-for-sustainable-supply-chains-is-in-data/ and https://www.hitachivantara.com/blog/empower-your-people-through-sustainability-initiatives/

How do you feel the workplace will have changed as we emerge from the global pandemic?

The world has changed and it is continuously changing. Pre-COVID, I was travelling often for work - this stopped. Then we believed that the COVID issue would be solved quickly. Now, it has been with us for almost two years and it will be with us a little bit longer.

Working from home was not common; it was considered you were not part of the team. Now, we have remote teams, changing leadership behaviour and skills to motivate individuals, high-performance teams still achieving the overall results.

What I have seen since the pandemic is that we are flexible and eager to get together when the situation allows us, and there is a need to get things done. If there is the right culture -  valuing people, integrity and trust, collaboration, and accountability and empowerment - I’m convinced you can be successful, wherever you work from. 

Therefore, I believe the core values have not changed; the circumstances and the external factors have changed, and will continue to change. We, as humans, are flexible enough to adjust to the changes.

What risks have you taken throughout your career and how did they help you get to the level you are at?

At one point, there was an open position in the company I used to work at, an EMEA Operations role. I was convinced I could do this. Secondly, this was the ultimate next step in my career. I discussed this with the European Human Resources Manager and asked for feedback. He advised me that, if I really wanted the role, I should call the Managing Director and share my motivation with him. I was scared to take this risk, but I also trusted the advice I was given. So, I called him and had a chat about the reason why I wanted the role. He basically told be to wait until the role would be published. 

I did, got the interview, was one of the final two candidates and got the job. When I met the Managing Director in my new role, his feedback was that he admired the courage it took to call him. This was one of the reasons why I was given that role.

Besides that example, I believe calculated risks are part of efficient leadership. Decisions need to be taken to move quickly towards the desired result.

How did you plan out your career development path?

When I started working, I wrote down my long-term ambition. Since then, at the end of each year, I create a list of accomplishments achieved, together with new goals and objectives for the next year(s). It helps me making decisions when new opportunities come along, or motivating myself to look for change or directions that brings me to the goals and objectives I have set. These goals and objectives I set are business-related, but also personal. This helps me to keep my work-life in balance.

What is the most surprising thing that has happened during your career?

I have a couple of things that surprised me during my career. In terms of intercultural communication, I have experienced many surprises, good and bad. And this can be extremely funny and sometimes embarrassing, too. I cherish these moments.

Secondly, looking back at what I initially wanted to achieve and where I am now, I’m surprised that I achieved what I had in mind at the time.

Finally, it still surprises me that leaders who manage by fear still can get away with such a management style. I still see this around me - not necessarily within my company - and strongly believe there are other ways to be successful as a leader or a company.

How can companies reduce bias in the hiring process?

This is a serious challenge. The process should be as transparent and objective as possible, and that is very complex. At the company I work for, we spend a lot of time on Diversity & Inclusion.

To understand the unconscious bias is a simple way to improve Diversity & Inclusion. And, of course, there are many other aspects that we need to take into consideration to reduce the bias. We must continue to identify the bias and create awareness to reduce the bias. At Hitachi Vantara, there are several (online) trainings available. This helps creating awareness. I also believe that technology (artificial intelligence) can help us reduce bias, creating consistency in the process.

What are the current recruitment challenges that you face?

So far, we have been able to find the right candidates and did not face challenges. We hire for cultural fit, where we search for candidates who share our values and understand our high-performance team culture. If this is a match, we also believe this candidate will outperform in the job we offer. And, as a company, we provide an excellent work-life balance, which is important for candidates to make the decision to work for Hitachi Vantara.

What advice would you give to aspiring leaders?

Stay yourself. Don't let yourself be led too often by things you have to do, or things you should do. Keep developing yourself, set goals and objectives.

Treat everyone with respect, be open and honest. You will be respected; people will be open and honest to you.

Thank you to Rimmert for speaking to Michelle Ewing, Director at EMEA Recruitment. 

Views and opinions contained within our Executive Interviews are those of the interviewee and not views shared by EMEA Recruitment.

Ranjeeta Rai is the Head of Packaging & Global KAM Supply Chain for Laundry & Home Care at Henkel. She has been with the business for over seven years, working within the Netherlands, Singapore and China.

Previously, Ranjeeta was a Senior Analyst and Team Leader within investment banking.

How does your company work to retain high potential employees?

Henkel has a robust talent programme with various aspects. The focus is to find a holistic evaluation of how we define a high potential employee. This programme enables the employee to have frequent feedback on what we define as areas of improvement, strengths, opportunities individually, and it’s also structured towards a succession plan.

Personally, I’ve had for the past three years a clear vision and roadmap on how I would evolve from a Category Team Lead, so a functional title as well as grade, to Director. I benefited from an external assessment as well, where a company comes in and you’re put on a three-day roleplay scenario workshop, and they assess you together with a fellow senior leadership from Henkel. They give you a very detailed feedback report defining competitively how you performed.

A different status is the profession planning. There is a structured way of assessing how ready you are to grow vertically in the company, but also how you can expand horizontally from a skill base, so it’s kind of a two-tier approach. That’s an assessment that’s conducted in the entire management circle (MC) level. So, the session plan and future talent pipeline is discussed every quarter cross-functionally, as well as across the organisation, so you have the ex-comms of each function sitting together throughout the year. Here the high potential talents and their profiles are shared, and you really make people aware who is available to move and location preferences in obviously a closed group.

There is another aspect that you asked in the question: How do you retain? When you speak of retaining, you must also think about why people leave and what are the reasons that motivate people to switch companies. A big aspect of retention is to give people a safe environment where they can talk about issues that could be related to their private life, work life, but topics that often lead to disgruntled employees, and them wanting to look out and switch over. So, creating that kind of safe environment for employees to bring up their concerns, to be able to talk openly with their managers, this is a big part of this family culture that Henkel talks a lot about.

From my point of view, I think those are the two key approaches and, of course, you have the compensation and benefits, which for a lot of people play a big part of why they choose to stay with a company, and that’s quite specific to the locations. From what I’ve seen working in the four geographies with the company, I wouldn’t say that there is one set of good practices, but I see it's very, very customised to the local preferences. So, if people really like to meet on the weekends, for example in Asia, I think it’s a big thing that you have these employee get-togethers on the weekend, whereas here, nobody wants to meet up on Friday afternoon, so we don’t do that. That plays a big role and then of course the local HR designing those programmes.

What changes have you seen to the employment market in the Netherlands over the years and what in your opinion have been the drivers for these changes?

I think it’s a very relevant question, especially in the context of the post-pandemic environment. A lot of the trends that we talk about in 2021 would be a consequence of this slow economic growth and lockdown, and people’s lives changing permanently.

I believe first of all there has been a drop in economic activity in the Netherlands, so, you do have a lot of sectors like hospitality, retail, which it’s clear that they were in six months of prolonged lockdown, so that definitely had an impact. But when you look at the vacancies, when you look at the job advertisements, when you look at the activity amongst the headhunting companies - personally speaking as well - it hasn’t changed. So, there is definitely a drop of economic activity, but there is no such drop in a search for talent or a search for vacancies being advertised. That’s quite unique, because in other parts - for example, Singapore - I hear it's quite different now; they’re not really recruiting. There’s a lot of focus on hiring locally and promoting a balance of Singaporean versus expats, but in the Netherlands, there is no such shift from hiring high potential expats for the key roles compared to other locations.

Secondly, I think job-hopping has become a big thing at the moment, so there is a trend. More and more, people are open to it, which meant that they passively are looking out to change. There’s a renewed confidence for people to say: “Yeah, this is what I want”, and “This is what I don’t want from my professional life and if my job doesn’t fulfil it, I am definitely looking to change that”. It’s like they really want to take control in their hands to change that. So, there’s this job-hopping phenomenon and a lot of competition naturally for the top jobs.

Companies are also looking at people with less niche talent and not really trying to match them with just one position, but really seeing where this person can fit the best and where they can add the most value. So, that’s a second phenomenon, this kind of passive search approach. I spoke about the expat community; there is nothing really diminishing the growth. In terms of strength and diversity of the expat community, I think it’s still quite robust.

Part-time, flexible employment became a big thing in the Netherlands. I think a lot of people are coming with the expectation to have defined upfront that they have a certain number of hours of flexibility in their jobs and the ability to work from anywhere, for example. This is a problem here, because a lot of companies are based here for tax purposes, which requires them to have the people really stay in the Netherlands, and this is definitely a big challenge, because more and more people are arguing: “Why do I need to be here if I can be in Greece with my family and do the same job and the same time zone?”. This aspect requires rethinking a lot of these policies for HR in terms of the contracts and taxes set up by employees.

I think benefits and compensation plays a big part, but you have a higher focus on the pension contribution and health insurance. I think these are two components from COVID that take even more attention than before. Employees are pushing to have these as part of their compensation package and they are not flexible about going in without health insurance, for example.

What does your organisation do to drive its sustainability agenda and how is it driven out within the business?

The commitment to sustainability for an FMCG needs to be at the forefront, so we are not one of the only ones doing this. What becomes important is how you differentiate yourself in terms of the agenda from your peers and how you put yourself at the forefront, rather than jumping on every trend in sustainability that’s emerging.

It is an integral part of the Henkel corporate culture, so it's not new; it's very much embedded in what we call our strategic framework. We have launched the agenda of purposeful growth and this is different from what Henkel used to do in former years.

Now we’ve given ourselves one agenda without the frame of a four-year cycle or a fixed time period. The Purposeful Growth Agenda is continuous, ongoing relentless work, and sustainability is the cornerstone of this Purposeful Growth Agenda.

What we do - and I think this where we differentiate a bit to our competitors - we focus a lot more on activating sustainability amongst our people, so really leveraging the employees, starting by what we call ambassador training. Every single employee must go through compulsory sustainability ambassador training and be certified as an ambassador, and what that really means is you, as an ambassador, are aware of what you do every day and what effect it has from a sustainable point of view on the environment, and how you are equipped to identify sustainable practices in your work.

Also, employees are empowered to launch their own initiatives, so these could be small, mid-sized initiatives in their own communities that they are really passionate about, and they also have a budget from the corporate to actually push these forwards. There are some cornerstone sustainability targets that are at the forefront for us moving towards 2025, and, amongst that, transparency, safety, circularity is key and top of the agenda at the moment.

And how is that going for you at the moment? Are you on target to reach those goals for 2025?

Each business unit has specific and sometimes differentiated target, also depending on the readiness of the eco-system around. There is still a large gap in the market and that is where the need to bring in more people to focus on this. This can only be achieved via focus and perseverance of large organisations like us. We are on a very good track to support this.

What are the current recruitment challenges that the business faces, if any?

We still have a problem getting women in the workforce at senior level. This is really the quality of female talent at senior positions; there is a very, very small pipeline of good resumes. There is also a need for the local government to try more and offer better plans around childcare. I think if both parents are working, you are entitled to a childcare subsidy, but if either parent is not working, you are not allowed and then you are obliged to take care of the kid. And, in the Netherlands specifically, I think this limits the female workforce from going into very time-consuming senior positions where they need to be very hands-on.

There is also the challenge of translating the vision of the company to potential new employees - how do you really bring that across? We focus a lot that you need to come in understanding what the corporate culture and fit is, but how do you really translate that at the recruitment stage to people? This is something where I think a lot of work needs to be done still.

What advice would you give to someone starting their career in Procurement, particularly as a woman?

Procurement is one career where you can easily find transferable skills from anything you have done before. You could be a lawyer, you could be a scientist, it does not matter. You will always find some transferable skills that you can bring to Procurement. Having said that, I think if there is one function where communication really is at the forefront - written, spoken, presentation, negotiation, stakeholder management - this is definitely a skill you need, so if you’re looking to get into Procurement, you need to do a better job at storytelling in your interviews or in your CV.

From my experience working in Procurement, I feel the gender parity is not yet there. It’s not yet as exciting to work in Supply Chain for a lot of women. It's seen as very operational, and sometimes tactical and not strategic enough, but more and more companies are separating strategic Procurement from the Purchase to Pay operational activities. That really allows you to come into Procurement and drive strategy; what you would typically think a management consultant would do. My advice would be work on your communication skills, do a good job at storytelling, and don’t be afraid to negotiate and demonstrate assertiveness.

What would have been your second career choice and why?

I would say a parallel career, because I believe you can have parallel careers as a second career, and I honestly wouldn’t change my current career for anything else. I don’t regret that I could have done something different. I did try different things; I’ve tried being a banker, I studied to be a psychologist, I’ve lived that for at least a short period of time. So, I am very happy where I am, but I think I need to have other things that are interesting to me beyond my job, such as wine.

If I could choose a parallel career, I would happily own a vineyard somewhere. I am pursuing advanced sommelier certification; just finishing level three exams. I do have a brand of my own, C.O.R.K.Y, which is a side hobby. The brand is supporting to bring European wines to Asia and I do a lot of consulting to understand the logistic part of shipping or importing wine. So, really advising Indian retailers on how to approach winemakers in France, how to negotiate, how to bring the brands into India, so that’s something I would see myself doing once I retire, which would be at 40 by the way!

Who do you admire most or who did you admire most when you were a child and why?

Both my parents. I grew up in a close-knit family where my exposure was limited to school and to my parents. I personally admire them both. First, my father is a self-taught, self-educated, self-trained professional. He never went to school, no university, nothing, but he made a career in insurance all his life, so the drive to learn something totally new and to have the courage to go into it I really get from my father.

My mum, because I know secretly she wanted to be an actress, but instead she raised five children. I think the one things I find quite unique in her character is how she found a routine interesting. For over 40 years, I saw her do the exact same thing every single day, but she still found it appealing and did it with passion. That is something I need to learn from her, how to appreciate and enjoy what you do and how to bring that routine into your day-to-day life.

Thank you to Ranjeeta for speaking to Michelle Ewing, Director at EMEA Recruitment. 

Views and opinions contained within our Executive Interviews are those of the interviewee and not views shared by EMEA Recruitment.

Pratik Yadav is the Digital Transformation and Analytics Lead for all programmes at Mondelez.

Pratik is one of the rare leaders in the industry today, having a solid background within Operations, as well as hands-on knowledge of new technologies, such as artificial intelligence (AI), machine learning (ML), robotic process automation (RPA), blockchain etc., driving global digital transformations.

He has been through a diverse experience with third-party logistics (3PLs), consulting, entrepreneurship through to ABB, where he was the Vice President of Supply Chain Ops and Digitalisation, leading Operations and several high-profile projects in the area.

Pratik is considered as an expert in bringing together Operations, Technology and Advanced Analytics to build sustainable operating models for global value chains. He is a regular speaker at global industry and academic events, with the aim to share a practitioner view with fellow professionals and simplify the digital transformation journey.

The views expressed are personal and do not represent Mondelez's views.

Can you tell us a bit about yourself and your journey from India to Europe?

Yes, it’s been a rather unexpected journey, not something I planned on purpose. I come from a semi-urban part of India with a relatively humble background. While studying my bachelor’s degree in Computer Science, I never thought that I would end up in Europe.

During studies, I took full-time roles, such as managing Logistics operations, teaching Physics and Mathematics to high school students. My main objective back then was to get enough funds for my education. However, in hindsight, I can see that these jobs also helped me in building skills like stakeholder management, analysing problems from first principal basis and how to prioritize to execute faster. Later, I co-founded two companies, one of which was a success, while the other was a failure, which again was a great learning experience. I also was in consulting for a couple of years, which helped me tremendously in building a structured mindset towards problem-solving and seeing things from a client’s perspective.

In 2008-09, I got an opportunity in Brussels to work for DHL Global Strategic team. The initial plan was to move for a year, but in the end, I stayed longer than a year, and moved around in functions and countries to support the top 100 global customers of DHL. Over the last 16-plus years, I have lived and worked in Belgium, Germany, the Netherlands, Denmark, Switzerland, the UK, United States and India.

It’s been a fantastic journey and not knowing everything has helped me to keep the mind open. My perspective about everything – work, culture, life, people, success, failure – has evolved and I see things with a much broader perspective now compared to 15 to 20 years ago. I was fortunate to work in very different cultural environments, with companies in diverse industries, taking on cross-functional roles, and with people who have largely been supportive, intellectually stimulating and inspirational. Again, I want to highlight that it was not a brilliant plan that came through, but instead what helped me was an openness towards new challenges and eagerness to continuously learn and evolve.

The majority of my jobs have been at the intersection of Operations, Technology and Data Analytics, and I think being a Computer Engineer helped me a lot to connect the dots between IT and Business. When I was studying Computer Science during graduation, I never thought it would help me in this way, as I didn’t know that such a role existed. A background in Technology, fused with hands-on operational understanding, helped me to create operating models that were not just tech-relevant, but sustainably meaningful for the business. It also helps that I got the opportunity to study a master’s degree at MIT in the US, which supported in further strengthening my Tech-Ops profile.

What is it that you like about Switzerland, to stay here for so long?

When I moved here in 2014, I was not coming here with a plan to stay forever. The idea was to enjoy the beautiful country, work with a great company like ABB and see where it goes. But things have changed, obviously, and Switzerland has become a second home. I think the Swiss governance model is one of the best - if not the best - and works well for this small alpine nation. Things that stand out clearly in Switzerland for me are: public sector works as it should. Whether its transportation, water or heating - everything works as per your need. I have been positively surprised with the way government offices interact and deliver services in almost seamless ways. Of course, improvements are always possible, but after living in so many different countries, I can say that Switzerland is one of the best places to live.

The second thing in Switzerland is that there are parts like Zurich, where almost 25-30% of the population is non-Swiss, and people keep coming in and going out. This large population of expats gives a good mix of working with different cultures.

The third great thing about Switzerland is that you’re so close to nature. You are basically sitting in nature’s lap, while have access to all modern amenities. I mean, in 30 minutes, you can be at a lake, a forest, a snow-covered mountain or hiking in the wilderness.

Obviously, it does help that the Swiss economy and the presence of companies makes the overall set-up just fantastic. You have a lot of multi-nationals here with their headquarters (global or regional) offering good strategic, as well as operational, positions for senior stakeholders. The education system here is brilliant in producing good talent in Technology, Natural Sciences and Management. I think, holistically, Switzerland is, in my opinion, one of the best places to live and work globally, which is also confirmed by various rankings for best places to live.

With Switzerland being home to so many multi-nationals and businesses that have complex supply chains, COVID-19 has entirely reshaped them. Why is it more imperative than ever for companies to really embrace a digital supply chain?

In my opinion, the need for a digital supply chain was already critical, even before COVID. This extraordinary black swan event simply exposed the glaring gaps in our Supply Chain operating models and expedited the shift towards digital.

From a consumer point of view, we want our interaction with businesses to be seamless, perfect, efficient and fast. Think about Amazon. You as a shopper at Amazon are used to ordering products anytime, using all type of interfaces, such as mobile, desktop, smartwatch, smart speakers, etc., delivered to most locations within two to three days, with reasonable cost, having full visibility and supported by absolutely brilliant customer service.

So, if you look at it from a demand point of view or how the consumer is looking at it - I want to have more flexibility on how I order the product, I want my product to be in a simple, small order, so I don’t need to order 50 pieces of something and I can just order 1 of something. I want everything in the process to be 100% accurate, and I don't want to check and correct my order five times. I want the entire execution to be fast, efficient, sustainable and ethical.

I honestly don’t see any other way for a decent size organization to manage all this complexity and volatility without using digital technologies and analytics. We live in a VUCA (volatile, uncertain, complex, and ambiguous) world today and it's likely to continue the same way, with even higher intensity. With supply chains spreading across the borders, the operational complexity is already significant, and our teams are struggling to keep up with all the external and internal changes. Without the use of effective digital solutions, I am not sure how you can manage all of this. Yes, there may be parts you can manage without technology or with limited use of tech/analytics, but given our multi-national supply chains, given the customer/consumer needs, given the regulatory requirements, it almost goes without saying that everyone needs to expedite the digital capabilities within your end-to-end value chain in a way that you have not done before. It’s not just having an ERP value chain.

Companies must consider integrating analytics into understanding:

a) what decisions are to be made

b) how you make those decisions, and

c) how you implement those decisions.

As a leader, you need to ask yourself - do I need to have somebody to look at the data five times or can I use technology, say RPA, to automate my decision-making once the overall principles are defined? Another question that leaders will have to encounter is: Do I need to be perfectly wrong or approximately right? We often spend time on getting very accurate, whereas the world around us works in ranges and probabilities. This is a key part of digital mindset and will require significant change management.

If the companies don’t invest now in capabilities such as AI, ML, RPA, process analytics, cloud computing and blockchain, many of them will struggle to stay relevant in ten to 15 years from now.

The most successful companies in this space have recognized that you cannot achieve these goals by having a traditional set-up of IT and Business. A paradigm shift is required to see Technology and Business as an integrated concept, because I don’t think there is a large company today that is not a tech company. We probably don’t recognize it, but already today almost every company in a way is a tech company that happens to sell non-tech products.

What advice would you give to other Supply Chain leaders who are looking to ensure that their digital teams are effectively used in the supply chain?

The key things to focus on are: mindset, talent and your approach to change management. I have five simple suggestions to cover these:

First: I would encourage leaders to get themselves familiar with these topics and at least build a basic minimum capability to understand what these different digital techniques or pillars can deliver you. I have seen terms like AI and ML being used very loosely, without real understanding how these technologies work or what is possible. Yes, these technologies are transformational in nature, provided you have understood the used case well. Do not fall for the trap of spending a lot of money without understanding if the solution you are buying is really using ML/AI. There was research in Europe around 2019, which indicated that almost 40% of start-ups claiming to use AI/ML were not at all using AI/ML.

Second: Explore growth or digital mindset, which means accepting that we need to test and learn, and not everything will work the way it was expected. Not all these technologies will deliver results from day one, but can become instrumental in setting up the foundation for the future.

Third: Assess where your organization is today before embarking on digital transformation of your supply chain. It is very important to realise what your organization’s strength and weaknesses are. For example, if it’s an organization where generally decisions are taken top-down by IT, you may want to establish a close partnership with them. Alternatively, if it is an organization where consensus is key and many stakeholders need to be aligned, then make sure to bring them on board. There is no single simple answer to bring this change and understanding of the starting point will help you in the journey

Fourth: Try to solve problems where you have enough data and your current KPIs [key performance indicators] are not performing well. For example, if your demand forecast accuracy is 50%, and you have good historic data on sales and promotions, then ML may be able to give you better results faster. In other words, look for low-hanging fruits. Another good example is the HTS [Harmonized Tariff Schedule] classification system in global trade, which is very relevant for global companies importing and exporting material.

Fifth: Embrace the two-way door decision theory (courtesy of Amazon/Jeff Bezos). He categorically divides most decisions into two buckets. Bucket one decisions are those that can be reversed easily. We as leaders need to make sure that the organization does not spend eternity to make these bucket one decisions and there is an action for bias instead. For bucket two decisions, which are considered irreversible, leaders need to spend enough time to understand the risks/challenges and fit in the overall business strategy.

What does it mean to you and what impact would you say diversity of thought has on Supply Chain teams?

I personally think diversity is a fundamental building block for success, not just in Supply Chain teams, but anywhere in general. It almost goes without saying that you need to have different points of view in an organisation to make sure that you don’t fall into the daily routine, and you need to have people who can challenge from different perspectives, either from their background, their history, their culture, their country or their professional/personal experience.

Diversity is just the first step towards an end goal of belonging. We do not want to simply have people from diverse backgrounds and mindset in our teams, but we want to make sure they feel a sense of belonging in the teams, and are comfortable in expressing themselves and sharing their opinions. 

As a leader, we need to make sure that they’re comfortable to contribute their ideas and their thoughts at every time in every level of discussion, and they have equal opportunities to raise their concern, their voice, without feeling threatened or without feeling left out.

So, for me, diversity and belonging are not even debatable topics. I know that we as a society are not where we want to be, but as leaders, we need to make sure continuous tangible progress is made in these areas.

Digitalisation is a driving force behind Supply Chain in a lot of different businesses, and it is really gathering more and more momentum, so talent in this area is really short. What can businesses do to engage this to retain them?

Recently, I was having a conversation about the same thing with another senior Supply Chain executive from a leading FMCG company, and we shared challenges in hiring talent within the space of Digital and Analytics.

The why we have attracted talent in a traditional sense is likely going to face issues and will require a rethink. For example, if you are a manufacturing company and you want to hire brilliant talent in the field of ML, you need to recognize that you are not competing against another manufacturing company, but against Facebook, Google, Amazon and start-ups. How should you position your organization from a compensation and culture point of view in these cases?

As leaders, I see a need to answer at least four key questions to manage the talent pipeline:

1. What is your digital strategy and, correspondingly, what type of talent you will need? For example, if our digital strategy is to primarily rely on external vendors and trust them to develop technology, then what type of Digital and Analytics talent do you need?
2. Which companies are competing for similar talent and what makes your organization different against those competitors? For example, do you offer stock options or work from home to attract talent?
3. How do you differentiate between operational and transformational talent? Transformational talent will make your organization future ready, whereas operational talent will ensure that your current day-to-day is run effectively. What do you need to attract and differentiate them?
4. Once the talent is brought in, how to make sure you don’t lose it?

Making this transformation into an organization that is attractive to digitally native talent will be difficult for most and will require strong support from the top management. Organizations will have to also ensure that in-house talent is not ignored and cultivated with a solid developmental plan.

It is also important to understand that digital talent does not mean that they are an expert only in AI and ML. Ideal leadership talent in this space will be the ones who have led Business Operations, have a solid background in Technology and have hands-on experience in driving large-scale transformations. I see the rise of Tech-Ops leaders as eminent, which can seamlessly transfer between Operations and Technology. After all, when algorithms make key decisions, you will need leaders who understand not just day-to-day Business Operations, but also these technologies.

I would also look at how we bring maybe partners like yourself, building up strategic tie-ups with universities, maybe even having a tie-up with one of the companies in the industry who is not your competitor, to look from a very different perspective. If you want to retain talent in this hypercompetitive world, you will have to give them flexibility, you will have to give them an opportunity to grow and challenge themselves, and you would also have to give them a way to feel like they belong in the team.

To really enable this transition, the organizations will have to rethink about the compensation structure, leave policies, working from anywhere guidelines, hierarchies, etc.

What are the skills that you think make a leader stand out in Digital Supply Chain?

I would categorize the skills into four buckets:

Operational skills: Solid hands-on operational understanding of supply chains. If you are lucky, you will be exposed to all parts of Supply Chain, including: Manufacturing, Procurement, Planning, Logistics, etc., but if you’re not, at least you should be exposed to two or three areas, to understand the E2E value chain.

Technological skills: We need to start understanding technology more, as a leader. In fact, go to the extent, why not make a small forecasting algorithm, yourself? See how it works instead of other people telling you how it is - there is enough free material available on the internet. If you have the time and the willingness, then I would urge you as a leader to get some technical skills. You don’t need to be a professional, but you need to understand how AI techniques like ML work in general.

Mindset and soft skills: The third part is the whole digital mindset, which is about growth, taking risk and learning with failure. The more we explore the digital space, the more we will recognise that we don’t have an answer to all the problems. If you’re working in a traditional Manufacturing environment, you know if you replace a machine with another machine, you are going to get 20% better output, because it’s standard, you can see the change. With technologies like AI, it is not a simple replacement. AI aims to replace decisions that are complicated in nature, and take input from many different processes and stakeholders. It is not easy, as the processes are connected across functions and geographies, and hence more complex. So, as a leader, it’s important for you to have the ability to give your team a test and learn licence. I don’t mean go and spend $5 million and fail, but more like, can I take a small part of the puzzle, test it and find a solution?

Communication skills: This, along with the mindset, is perhaps the most important skills for successfully leading and managing transformations. The question for leaders is not only what to communicate, but also how to communicate, when to communicate, whom to communicate and where to communicate. I urge everyone to invest time and effort to build this skill, as it’s one of the main levers in driving a transformation.

I encourage everyone to explore and ask. I am amazed with platforms like LinkedIn, as they are such a powerful tool. Any one of us can just go on and ask any question, and within minutes, you will have responses from across the globe on LinkedIn. It’s important to be comfortable with not knowing, but it’s not okay to not ask.

I have not talked about strategic mindset, collaboration, team player, communication skills, as these are minimum necessary skills.

You mentioned a couple of times about mistakes or failures. What role did failure play in your career?

A significant role, I would say. There are a lot of skills that can be taught in a school - technical skills, perhaps a bit of soft skills. But there are other skills that you learn while doing things in life. How to engage in a conversation, how to negotiate, how to balance emotional quotient, how to assess a tough situation… Yes, there are trainings available, but most of the learning comes when you are in real-life situations. I have failed several times in my life and, behind every success, there are a few key learnings that came from these failures. For example, I failed when I got my first leadership role many years ago, because I took a very textbook approach to leadership. Another time I failed was when I did my first transformation many years ago. I messed up, as I thought people would follow the plan as designed and did not re-emphasize on the key messages. 

It is important to recognise that failure is not necessarily a bad thing. I see that, in my career, if I look at it overall, it’s been positive. I’m happy with the experience I’ve got. I would not have been here if I didn’t try different things and learned from them. These were all important learnings and I hope I don’t make the same mistakes again.

Outside of work, what do you think your main passion is?

I would say three areas:

1. Sustainability through my actions and my work. I try contributing by minimizing my materialistic consumption (I may not always succeed though) and grow forests where I possibly can. I am keen to continue working on Technology and analytical solutions to ensure that every day, with small steps, our entire supply chains move towards being 100% sustainable.
2. I am very passionate about education. I try to support education through financial means, as well as personal time commitment. I try to spend a few hours every month as a mentor, and share my experiences, learnings and failures with young students and professionals.
3. The third passion for me is the love to learn and explore. Not just about things at work, but in general. You will find me on the weekend reading or watching series on new topics, such as astrophysics or blockchain. If someone tells me that they built a new model using ML and it's able to improve production planning by 5% more than the traditional system, I would like to know how it worked and what more is possible. These habits of continuous learning and curiosity have benefitted me over the years.

Thank you to Pratik for speaking to out Procurement & Supply Chain and Operations team in Switzerland, led by Neil Cope.

Views and opinions contained within our Executive Interviews are those of the interviewee and not views shared by EMEA Recruitment.

Brad Perry is the Chief Financial Officer (CFO) of beqom, the provider of a cloud-based total compensation solution. beqom’s mission is to make the people of the world's largest enterprises happy, with correct, fair and transparent compensation.

Brad has 22 years of experience in senior Finance positions, creating value for customers and shareholders of blue-chip technology companies. He served for a decade in Finance at IT services innovator EDS, which was acquired by HP. At HP, Brad served as a Finance and Operations leader of some of the company’s largest and most complex global IT services engagements and in its largest and most complex market segments. He went on to become VP of Finance for Hewlett Packard Enterprise (HPE), and then DXC Technology, before moving to his current role at beqom. 

While we continue to face the realities of COVID-19, how have you seen your approach to Finance/Business Operations evolve?

Initially, COVID-19 forced us to take emergency measures – we implemented spend restrictions, some short-term actions, such as taking advantage of some government support programs. We looked at it as a temporary impact that we would need to buffer before moving back into the normal operating mode.

However, we quickly realised that the impact would not be short-term, COVID itself would last for a longer period and, even after COVID-19, a lot of the norms will have changed. So, we started to try to make more permanent shifts, like moving away from things that require physical interaction, like trade fairs, our office setup, the way that we did travel, the way that we interacted with customers, and we invested more in digital activities. We were already pretty big in digital marketing, but we did more around remote webcasts and things like that to build pipeline, to build a view of new customers and, as we looked at the software, we’ve really tried to start to invest to make it more self-service, to allow customer autonomy and not require onsite interaction.

Additionally, the good news for most companies that sell into corporate enterprise is that we found that we can do strategic selling remotely; we don’t have to be onsite, we don’t have to have a single customer interaction. It’s preferable, but we have successfully managed to attract and close deals without a physical meeting.

What do you think is the future of Finance?

I think immediately it is about automation and making the job simpler. We have tried to look at what makes the processes that we run complex and simplifying them in various ways, for example, reducing the number of legal entities, consolidating the way that we make payments, etc.

Automation is a lot about the tools; there’s a lot of products on the market right now to automate tasks around time tracking, billing, everything from payments to preparing your annual financial statements, and we’re working to implement that. All companies are looking to simplify the core activities around Finance and Accounting and it’s important that we do that to free up mind share to do the next thing.

Beyond more the mid-term, we are trying to enable ourselves to manage things more dynamically, by shifting our spending, shifting our resources between areas and quickly being very reactive - being proactive on how we deploy our resources is critical. We need to be very flexible and almost start from a zero-budgeting mentality, where each month we question the base that we have and think about how we would operate in the new environment each day as we see the situation unfold.

Longer-term, I think we’re going to see Finance move not just away from transaction on inter-business partnering, but beyond that, incorporating a lot of operational elements and changing the way businesses operate around IT, Procurement, employing personnel, and that is where the big value is going to be and finding ways to drive the financial performance of a company from all aspects.

COVID has accelerated these changes to a point - it really taught us the need for speed. I think we have seen the same in the recruitment area, too. The workforce is changing quite quickly and, at the company level, being able to attract and employ new skills quickly is super important. On the individual level, it is important for people to be able to evolve themselves and upskill for the future. It was a tough time, but it was an important learning for businesses and people in their work.

What would you say is the most rewarding part of your role?

As CFO of a mid-size company, I get to do it all and that is really the most interesting thing about my role. I work on very specific problems that need solving; making payments happen in countries and avoiding VAT, to creating strategic long-term business plans to present to the Board and to drive the performance of the company towards that objective. Working both at the transactional level on very practical things that need to happen and encouraging strategic initiatives at the same time.

Additionally, in my role, I get to work on a lot of things that are not traditionally in the Finance and Accounting domain, which includes how we structure the software to maximise revenue, how we hire the best talent to do that software development, to do the sales and marketing. So, being able to work around all aspects of the company is exciting for me and that’s the best part of my role. I’m fortunate that, in my company, in my role, there is a lot of trust and there is an openness where we can talk about other people’s domain and really have a say and help to make everyone great.

How do you think companies could reduce bias in their hiring process?

It is important that you start at the beginning and you set up a process where you get a good pool of candidates with the required skills and experience. You must make sure that that pool of candidates includes underrepresented parts of the community, so that you have allowed enough of the process to run where you have the opportunity to include diverse candidates in the selection process.

In the selection itself, you need to make sure that everyone’s been screened, has the skills and experience, can fit the company culture, is a solid candidate for the role and you believe could do the job. Then, take a step back and review the top candidates, asking, “Have we brought in diversity for consideration?”, and then as you go into the actual selection, if you find equally great candidates, always try to select the one that would bring more diversity into the company, because we know that more diverse representation in companies - especially in more senior positions - improves the company performance. It’s known that having different perspectives really makes companies better, so when you have the opportunity, lean towards that and take advantage of it.

What risks have you taken throughout your career and how did they help you to get to where you are?

The biggest risk I’ve taken throughout my career is not being afraid to talk to people. I have always been very ambitious and wanted to grow myself in different ways; not just climbing the ladder, but have different experiences, move to different regions of the world, work in different disciplines, manage different aspects of the business, learn how to lead in all different respects. The way that I did that was really proactive networking. I wasn’t afraid to identify people that I thought could help me to progress my career, either directly through giving me an opportunity or mentoring me or opening other doors and introducing me to other people to talk to. I wasn’t afraid to do that, and it really helped me build my network, both within a company and outside of a company, talking and really explaining where I want to go and understanding the path to get there.

A lot of people are afraid of that. They are either afraid to set up the conversation to approach someone or, when they speak to the person, they are afraid to be clear about what they want and ask for help and ask for assistance to get there. As I’ve gone further in my career, I know that more senior people appreciate it when people are proactive and have a great aspiration and want their help and advice, so I think it’s great that I did it and I would definitely recommend it to other folks.

Moving back to the diversity discussion, I think it’s equally, if not more important, for people who are coming from underrepresented parts of society to build those connections and to be more proactive to overcome the natural bias that exists in business.

What is the biggest myth about your profession that you want to debunk?

The biggest myth in my profession is that Finance and Accounting people are boring and very conservative. It’s absolutely not true! Technology is evolving to the point of automating the boring, mundane tasks that go around Finance and Accounting and what’s needed is really creativity, being not risk adverse, but identifying the right risk to take to maximise the business performance, and being really quick and innovative in the way that you approach the role and support the business.

The people that are attracted to Finance and Accounting roles are, by nature, thinking big. They know that the numbers represent the business in a way and understanding the Finances of a company you really can see through and understand the whole company. There’s this big picture aspect that attracts a certain type of person and then there’s the problem-solving element that drives creative thinking, and all of that attracts interesting people who are ambitious and want to take on challenges, think the big picture, think creatively. That’s not boring and I think it’s also not conservative. The other thing is, we are always the most fun – Finance is the life of the party!

What’s the biggest compliment anyone’s ever given you?

I have been told a few times in my career, “Oh, you’re not like the typical Finance guy,” “You’re not the typical Accountant”. So that was always a nice compliment for me, because the stereotype is real, and everybody expects that you’re boring and super conservative. So, personally, I’m trying to debunk that myth.

What kind of advice would you give to someone who was looking to leave the corporate structure and go into something newer and a bit more dynamic?

I worked for 20 years in large corporate enterprises, and I knew when I was looking for the next role, the next change, I wanted to do something quite different. I really wanted to try my hand at something more entrepreneurial for the second half of my career. I made a conscious decision around that, but I didn’t fully understand what it meant until I actually got it. I knew it was going to be a big change to go from a large corporate enterprise to a mid-market type of company, a smaller company, and it was.

I think a lot of what I expected was true; I knew that it would be much more hands-on, I knew that it would be much broader in terms of responsibility, but I think I did not appreciate how much work it would be to really get control of it to work on the details, to worry about things that I never would have had to worry about in previous roles. Bank accounts, payments going through, employment regulations at the personal level, really transactional level things that are super important for the business that I would never have had to have worried about in the past all of a sudden become really important and, in a way, strategic, even though they’re at the very detailed level.

It took me a while to see that and to realise that and now that I’m comfortable with it, having the ability to do that, to get involved where it matters, while at the same time doing the very big strategic stuff thinking long-term, thinking about how we should really change things dramatically and move towards a different direction, and then making it happen at the detailed level.

For people that are considering making such a change, it really takes a certain type of person. First and foremost, you cannot have a huge ego coming into this role. If you think you’re above doing certain things, then it will never work. You need to really be a doer; you cannot be afraid to get your hands dirty, you also need to be really flexible, and able to take a decision and move in a different direction overnight.

Also, being able to tackle issues and not be overwhelmed by the latest problems that might crop up that need to be addressed. I think somebody coming into this role has really got to be able to manage their time really effectively and decide what they want to focus on, what’s the most important thing to close down and to communicate that clearly to the team and to the company. 

Another aspect is, typically Finance and Accounting people work internally in their company in large corporations, interacting primarily with other people in the company, other parts of Finance, the business owners, whereas when you move into a smaller company, you have huge volumes of external interactions with the board and shareholders, but also with lenders, with customers, with partners that supply resources… all of that has a huge responsibility under the CFO.

So, being comfortable to interact with people that you’ve never met that work in entirely different domains, negotiate leases for offices, service agreements, these are things that a lot of people in their corporate roles have never experienced. It takes a little bit of someone that’s comfortable, someone that’s a bit extroverted to be able to make that transition.

You need to have built the skill before taking this type of role; it didn’t come naturally to me in the beginning, I’m not a natural salesperson, but I knew that I needed to build that skill over time, as it was important to my career. Coming into this role, you cannot be a back office person - you need to be ready to engage at a lot of different levels, which is really fulfilling.

At the end of the day, you know that you’ve worked on what you think are the most important things, and you’ve driven the business forward and you feel a great satisfaction and a sense of accomplishment at the end of it.

Thank you to Brad for speaking to our Finance & Accountancy recruitment team in Switzerland.

Views and opinions contained within our Executive Interviews are those of the interviewee and not views shared by EMEA Recruitment.

Luigi Maria Fierro joined ING Group in 2015 and is currently Global Head of ING HR Strategy and Advanced Analytics, leading HR’s future strategic agenda with clear focus on analytics and data.

During his journey in ING, he covered several roles as Head of HR Transformation and Head of Performance Culture, leading several strategic initiatives like new HR operating model design and implementation, and Group’s new performance management culture and framework.

Prior to joining ING, Luigi Maria worked for 10 years at McKinsey and Co., serving several leading financial institutions in Europe, the Middle East and North Africa. Thanks to these experiences, Luigi Maria has developed an extensive knowledge on the financial institutions sector, combining HR business and strategic perspectives, which he is also leveraging as lecturer at Bologna Business School, start-up advisor member and international conferences speaker.

What is the best and worst interview experience you’ve had?

This is a good question. For me, every experience is about the feeling that you have at the end of the interview cycle. It’s really not related to the company or to the outcome of the interview process, but it’s more related to the way you interact with people and, especially, I’m referring to how much the interviewer is looking after you as a candidate, bringing you up to speed about the process and giving you feedback on the overall interview process.

The best interview experience has been when I received a lot of information about the interview process, the stages, the people that I was meeting etc. After every meeting, I was given a mini debrief. The worst interview experience is when you, as a candidate, have to chase the company. In my view, the interview process gives you a lot of insights. The interview process is a fair representation of the company culture, but especially the culture of the people, of the team you would be working with. The role of the people is key - if they do not answer the phone, do not write back, not fully sharing with you what they’re thinking and what they’re feeling about the process, then this is where alarm bells should be going off about the culture and way of working in this particular company.

ING is one of the market-leading companies in the Netherlands, so how would you say your company works to retain high potential employees?

I think there are mainly three elements: we allow them to steer their own careers; we allow them to invest in their craftsmanship; and we allow them to find the right balance between personal and professional life.

Steering your own career means that, in ING, each of us is accountable for taking the lead in moving their careers forward and, therefore, moving ING forward by keeping our skills and expertise up to date. We create the environment in which our people are empowered to develop, taking into account their own history, purpose and ambitions, while ensuring we provide ING the capabilities that it needs to deliver its strategy.

Our philosophy is that people should invest in their own craftsmanship. We encourage people to consider: Where do I belong in ING? Which part of the company? Who are the people I would like to work with? We have a strong emphasis on self-development. Connected to that is a heavy investment on the craftsmanship side. So, if I am investing in you as a professional, I’m also asking you to invest in yourself and to understand what you need as a next learning experience. I’m asking you to proactively think what is going to be the next career path and for you to be on the driving seat of your craftsmanship connected to your career.

And the last one - and this is really being accelerated by the pandemic - we pay a lot of attention to the balance between professional and personal life. It does not mean that we are asking people to do less, but to really focus on the deliverables, on the achievements, focus on the final goal and giving people flexibility. For example, working from home, we give them opportunities and we ask them to make an investment in themselves. I think this is also something that is positioning us quite well on the Dutch market as a very good employer, as we take care of our colleagues by giving them opportunities, and we ask them to invest in their vitality and craftsmanship in return.

What changes have you seen to the employment market in the Netherlands over the years and what in your opinion have been the drivers to these changes?

I believe there are mainly two elements most likely happening in the Netherlands market. There is, on one side, even more focus on non-financial characteristics that working offers. What I really mean is that a lot of especially junior colleagues or new colleagues that are joining are looking for information in terms of the non-financial benefit, the compensation, but there is a lot of attention on work-life balance, having flexibility, healthcare benefits etc. Non-financial benefits are increasingly considered as a value-add, to ensure a very good quality of life and balance between personal life and professional life, and I think ING is well-positioned in this area.

Secondly, there are many fintechs or other start-ups that have entered the market. Many of them have now become scale-ups. They can offer something very different than a large bank. Because these companies are younger, with less clearly defined organisational structures, it can be attractive for some of our employees to join such businesses after working with us for a while. It’s an interesting evolution.

Fun question, what is your personal highlight of your career so far?

It’s another great question and not an easy one. I think the key highlight has been the opportunity in the last year to explore different topics, different functions and different regions. So, if I look back to the last 15 years, I have done consulting, I have worked in financial institutions to telecommunication, I’ve been working on the Risk side, Finance side, HR, now Analytics. I’ve done jobs in North Africa, the Middle East and Europe. I’ve been lucky enough to change the set-up frequently, so I never get bored. Maybe the highlight of my career so far is that I’m still feeling like a teenager in my career; I still don’t know what I want to do when I grow up. I consider myself quite blessed for this. I turned 40, but I feel 18 - but it’s still okay for me.

What are your tips on achieving work-life balance?

I learnt that the hard way; it is to listen to yourself and listen to your body. I think your body can tell you when you’re doing slightly too much and when you’re pushing too much. Listen to your body, and then try to really understand whether you need flexibility on how to best balance your working and professional life.

For example, on the family side, bringing the kids to school is something that is giving you happiness that makes you feel proud; if that is part of what you would like to do, do it and then just move the meeting later on, start later in the day, no one will complain. My suggestion is to listen to yourself in case you’re doing too much, and then really think through in terms of which is the part of your personal life that you would like to protect, and make it clear and be transparent to your manager and to your colleagues. By saying I will not start before 9.30 because I want to bring my kids to school, unless there is an emergency, but otherwise, I am going to start at 9.30. If you do this - especially as a manager - people will do the same and everybody will find their own balance, and everybody is going to be slightly happier and more engaged.

So, if you could go back and give your younger self some career advice, what would it be?

Study Middle Age history and become a professor. I think the career advice is: sometimes we can get lazy and follow the flow, and especially when you’re young, you think you have all the time in front of you to do all the experience that you want. Instead, sometimes when you start having the feeling that it’s time to change, go for the change. Don’t wait. Again, you cannot steer your life; life is going to overtake any of your plans, but at least you can try to do your best to change when you believe it is the right moment. 

And finally, what books, blogs or podcasts are you currently reading and listening to? What have you been enjoying and any recommendations?

I bought two books that I was reading this summer. The first one is Excellence in People Analytics. This is about a new field that I am working on, so I want to read cases that different companies are investing. And the other is about the Second World War, it’s Operation Anthropoid, it’s a very nice book, it has also been turned into a movie, it’s very nice reading and watching

When I’m on the move and I can listen to some podcasts, I listen to something that is quite relaxing, so about Italian news or something. I really try to protect my personal time without pushing some working podcast into it. So, I’m listening to something about Italy and my country.

Thank you to Luigi for speaking to Hannah Mallia, Director - Finance in the Netherlands.

Views and opinions contained within our Executive Interviews are those of the interviewee and not views shared by EMEA Recruitment.