Romain Taffouraud is the Managing Director of Sun Chemical in Geneva, Switzerland. He was previously a CFO at Sensient Technologies Corporation and Plant finance Director at Procter & Gamble, where he spent almost 13 years. Romain was also the President of Versoix Athletics, the second largest club in Geneva.

How do you feel your passion for sports - athletics and the running club - helps you be a better leader?

There are numerous similarities between sport and business management. Firstly, being good at sport – which, for me, means having fun and reaching my own targets - does not happen from one day to another. It means training, practising, and having a certain rigor during the exercise. This is the same at work, where day after day, I try to show the pace and provide the right example to my teams.

Secondly, when you practise for several years, you feel the need for change, for new training exercises, and for new challenges. Again, this is the same at work, where you need to find new ways of running your business in order to be even more successful year after year.

Also, creating and developing a club or an association gives you a different purpose and use of your leadership skills. After a few years, the association I created with a friend now has more than 130 members that requires us to design and propose the right offer (training sessions) to targeted clients (passionate runners) that you first recruit and then try to retain.

What are the current recruitment challenges that you face?

As far as recruitment is concerned, our organisation currently faces two types of challenges. First of all, Switzerland is a very particular market with a structurally low unemployment rate. It reached its lowest level in 20 years, at 2.2%, by the end of 2022. We are therefore now below the famous frictional unemployment and close to a kind of shortage.

This is even more true for certain types of profiles that are difficult to find in the market – mostly resources with one or two experiences, mobile, dynamic, and qualified in specific areas or skills (soft or hard). These profiles are rare to find in the market currently.

The second challenge is a relatively new one coming from new behaviours adopted by our more junior employees. There is a strong request for higher flexibility in what employers can offer and the way we design our future roles. In absence of adjustment, these employees - which are also generally more agile in the job market - do not hesitate to switch employer whenever the opportunity arises.

What does your organisation do to drive its sustainability agenda? 

The first critical step for our organisation was to know where we were in terms of sustainability. That means, to design an effective action plan, we first need to understand the global footprint of the organisation.

I am currently located in a production and R&D [research and development] site. So, the application field is huge and exciting. We have been tracking our precise utilities consumption and can easily identify the drivers of it, from our production site/headquarters to our portfolio of products.

Then, the role of engineers is to change the way we operate, find alternatives to the less green raw materials, move to faster production time, reduce utilities consumption via lean production and concentrated production, etc.

The first actions and results are low hanging fruits - switching lights, lowering the heating systems - which are easy to implement. Whereas, reformulating old products and convincing customers to move to greener alternatives takes much more time. In that process, it is important not to be a standalone actor, but benefit from the support of a whole organisation. From that perspective, the DIC Way promoted by our company is a great foundation, internally and externally.

But there is still one positive thing about the current utilities crisis and the related price increase: it gives an additional financial incentive to all sustainability projects. For instance, whereas moving to solar energy was hard to justify so far, with current market prices, payout is only in three to five years!

What advice would you offer to someone moving to Switzerland?  

Moving to Switzerland is relatively comparable to moving to any other foreign location. Meaning, although you might believe the language(s), the culture, the habits are close to yours, you should still make the effort to understand and integrate them.

As in any other change, try to understand what makes Switzerland so different and why it has been stable for decades.

What is a memorable moment from your career and why?

It may sound paradoxical, but the months I had (and we all had) to overcome during the pandemic were probably the most exciting and challenging ones. I am convinced the accumulation of so many crises in such a short period of time will not happen again soon - at least, I hope!

The challenges were mostly of two types. Firstly, on the human side, COVID-19 created a new environment, which we were obviously not prepared to face or handle. In March/April 2020, the questions to answer were as simple as: What do we do? Should we shut down the production site or keep it running to serve our customers? Where is the right balance between protecting our people and protecting our business?

With my team, I had to invent the local customized answer to the daily problems over several weeks; I must have spent about 80% of my time on people and organisation management - for an ex-CFO, quite a challenge!

On top of that, after a few months of business euphoria, unexpected business complexity was added to the health situation – raw materials pricing and availability became an issue, transportation costs skyrocketed, utilities costs exploded…

In that context, as a business leader, you have to innovate, think one step ahead and out of the box to find solutions others will not even have imagined. Sometimes, you win.

What is your favourite business motto and why? 

Several years ago, I found the following quote written on the wall of my English production manager’s office: “I never lose. I either win or learn.” Since then, I keep leveraging these words from Nelson Mandela.

In our current world, where failure is an issue and hardly forgiven, this is a very positive way to turn (bad) experiences into something positive and insightful for the future.

For the younger generation also, turning all trials into a new learning experience is critical. I do not necessarily believe, however, as the great Taoist Lao Tzu said: “Failure is the condiment that gives success its flavor,” but there is a whole literature on the virtues of failure for those interested.

What is the secret to building a strong network?

First of all, I am not sure there is one secret to build a network, because each network is linked to your personality, your history, your experience, your background and so on. But, I will offer two bits of advice.

Firstly, you should not activate or try to build your network when you need it – meaning, when you need it, it’s actually too late. I learnt that, because I decided to use my network after 13 years in P&G, where you are just living in a kind of bubble.

So, my first advice is, as soon as you start your working experience, try to keep your connections. Be interactive, try to get the best out of the people you can connect with, and be open and transparent with people. It should not, however, be something you are forcing yourself to do - and don’t make anything artificial.

Secondly, networking comes from two sides – meaning, you will leverage it when you need it, but please also ensure you are openly available to people and to young students when they need something. You should not only look up, but also look down.

If you believe first that you won’t get anything from a connection, it’s wrong; you always get something from the people you mix with. For instance, a new student will teach you and give you some advice on how the new graduates behave and what they think. This will bring you onto something you can learn, and you can replicate in your next recruitment, for instance.

Having moved from Finance to General Management, who are now the main stakeholders that you deal with internally? How have they changed?

The main change while moving into General Management is that you will have to deal with a vast majority of stakeholders - actually all available stakeholders within the company. Whereas, in the past, as a Finance Manager, you are mostly dealing with a limited number of people.

This means you have to interact with different people that you were not particularly familiar with in the past - obviously with HR, with recruitment, but also I’m thinking about Health and Safety and about Purchasing - so there are quite a lot of different stakeholders you have to manage.

You need to know what their constraints are, what they are thinking, what their ways of doing business are, that kind of complexity. Because, from one day to another, you are expected to know what they have to do, to know how to behave, and what their strategy and plans are. You must support these people, to show them that you are supportive and can be seen as a leader. Also, as a manager, you have to understand what they are doing.

Those are the kind of challenges I experienced at the beginning, when moving to this General Management role.

Was there a learning curve when you first started?

Definitely. Coming from Finance, you have a certain proximity with some departments and some stakeholders. I was quite used to dealing with management or top management, for instance, doing the reporting; external partners were also relatively easy for me, as well as salespeople.

Prediction and Supply Chain were tough areas, as they are very specific, highly qualified people. Yes, you have to build proximity, closeness with these people, try to understand what they are doing, how they are thinking, just to make sure you understand what they are doing and what their constraints are, and really being very humble at the beginning.

I was not afraid to say, “Sorry guys, I don’t understand” or, “I don’t know what you are doing or what your constraints are, just tell me. I will be able to help you, I will support you, but just explain what you are doing and what the context is, so that we can build something together.”

Thank you to Romain for speaking to John Bower, Director in our Finance & Accoutancy recruitment team in Switzerland.

Views and opinions contained within our Executive Interviews are those of the interviewee and not views shared by EMEA Recruitment. 

Thomas Mulder is the Executive Director HR, Internal Comms and Workplace at VodafoneZiggo in the Netherlands. He has been with Vodafone for over 11 years, having previously been HR Director of the Netherlands, Belgium and Luxemburg at Accenture.

How can leaders create diverse teams?

It starts with being aware of unconscious bias, and we call that conscious inclusion. People need to really understand the opportunity that diverse teams bring in comparison with more heterogenic, homogeneous teams. So, there is self-awareness and conscious inclusion.

I think the second point is that you need to give the topic priority. Working on diversity is a long-term thing, so you can always start tomorrow instead of today. You need to make sure that you raise it on the priority list, and you can do that by attaching clear objectives of what you want to achieve.

The third point is to create a culture around inclusivity and diversity. You need to focus in your internal communication on diversity, on role models, on the behaviour that you would like to see. If you do these three things in parallel - make sure that you develop the capabilities needed amongst your leaders to shape and lead diverse teams, set a clear ambition level and target, and create a positive internal buzz around this to make people aware and to really highlight what you want your culture to be - then I think you can create diverse teams within your organisation.

What would you say excites you about working for VodafoneZiggo?

From an HR perspective, on the one hand, we invest billions in spectrum, in our network, in technology, where we get a return only in years' time, so we have to have a very long-term focus.

But, on the other hand, the competition in telco salesforce for all different segments - fixed technology, mobile technology, we’ve got big IT infrastructure and team, we’ve got technicians on the road with national coverage and customer care.

If you think about all of this and think about the diversity, that is super fascinating to lead and to manage - especially because nothing in this organisation works in isolation. We have to do everything end-to-end, and that is always super interesting, of course.

The third thing for me is just the sheer importance that we have in society. If you think about our network, if we have an outage, the nation comes to a standstill. But also, if you think about innovation that’s happening in society - also the way we have to deal with challenges like climate change, for instance - we are privileged to be able to play a vital role in that and that is what makes it very attractive to work for this company.

What changes have you seen to the employment market in the Netherlands over the years and what in your opinion have been the main drivers for these changes?

A couple of things. We, of course, are dealing with an ageing population in the Netherlands. The way I sometimes put it, now and in the years to come, every month, a covert of people retire that is the size of VodafoneZiggo. That means that the labour market is getting increasingly tight.

Within that, we don’t see the massive resignation wave that we have seen in other Anglo-Saxon markets, so that means that the number of people who are actively in the market looking for another role is very small. That means that, if you want to be able to attract talent, you have to be super quick and laser-focused.

Therefore, in the Netherlands, we are attracting more talent from abroad and I’m also glad to see more international talent joining VodafoneZiggo. As an organisation, you need to make sure that you are able to tap into that international pool of talent, because, if you only limit yourself to the Dutch labour market, that could easily be too small.

Finally, if you think about the digital transformation that our society is in at the moment, there is a massive demand for new skills and capabilities, and just pulling on the new joiners on the labour market, the digital natives, is not enough. I think that the companies that offer development opportunities to people are the winners.

If you could go back and give your younger self some career advice, what would it be?

From the age of 17, I thought, let’s start my career in HR, because that’s an opportunity to see how an organisation works from the inside, and you get to see every aspect of it quite quickly. Then, let’s see where it ends, and that’s still my strategy now, 20 years later.

I think the only career advice that I would give myself if I were able to do it again is to enjoy the moment more. I’ve always been driving things forward, always been focused on the next thing with my team, the next thing with my business, and my people agenda, instead of just sometimes letting it go and enjoy the moment that you are in.

I think generally this is also career advice that I would give to a lot of people. The fear of missing out is also a big driver for career decisions these days and that’s actually a negative career consideration. Valuing more what you have, thinking more carefully about the perspectives that you may have may also reduces the risk that you take the wrong decision, just because you are anxious that you are missing out on something in the short-term.

How did you plan out your career development?

I actually did not really plan it out. It started with this ambition to start my career in HR and then I focused more on my own development. I think that’s more important than planning your career, because when it comes to career moves, you are not in charge with that; it’s about being at the right place, at the right time, being able to make a move and not necessarily about being only the best candidate.

A lot comes down to luck when it comes to developing your career. So, it’s better to then focus on the things that you can influence, and that is your own development; making sure that you’re open to feedback, that you know you can grow personally and professionally. For instance, I think I’ve done two things: I’ve always developed myself as a generalist in business with an executive MBA, with executive programmes at London Business School, and also Singularity University, to develop myself more as a generalist, rather than a particular HR specialist.

The second thing is that I think I have taken a risk a number of times in my career. I tend to focus on the grey areas. A lot of things are black and white in this world; they are clear, they are chartered, people know what is expected and what you need to do, but there are also areas in the business where it’s grey, where it’s not clear, because it’s new, unchartered, people really don’t know what the expectations are.

This is when you can shape your own agenda and position yourself as a leader in a different way, in an authentic way, and that offers you more career development, steeper learning curves, than in a world that is black and white. There are also risks attached to those grey areas, and I think, a couple of times in my career, I have consciously taken the risk and that is really accelerated my personal development.

I was the HR Director for Accenture for the Netherlands, Belgium and Luxembourg on a good career trek. I had programmed to become a senior executive, when I was offered to join Vodafone. However, Vodafone did not have a job for me, they just said, why don’t you come, it’s going to be fun? I decided to quit my job at Accenture; I had a team with lots of momentum, uncertainty about the next step, and basically moved my family to London in a new environment, not having a clue about what I was going to be doing there. I think that is an example of such a risk.

After an introduction into the company, I then got a phone call to do the due diligence on a global telco in 35 countries - I did have experience with integration, but not with due diligence. I would say that is an example of taking a risk in a grey area, where you then get these opportunities to accelerate your personal development.

What is the most surprising thing that has happened in your career?

I have never really felt that something came as a real surprise. What I would have never expected at the start of my career is that I would have moved abroad and to multiple countries. I think I never anticipated that; it really happened in the moment and turned out to be a very good thing, I have to say.

How will digital transformation change the role of HR, in your opinion?

If you think about digital transformation, a lot of things in society, and in organisations, corporates, need to change. It’s the organisation that needs to become more agile, more centred around technology and data. The second is that you need different skills and capabilities in a digital world. The third thing is a different style of leadership - much more focused on coaching, holding people to account, rather than command and control, for instance, but also much more focused on an external radar, instead of internal best practice, so those leadership shifts.

Then, there is a culture of collaboration amongst people who master different capabilities, different profiles. All of these things – organisational development, capability development, leadership development and culture development – are the fundamental tasks and responsibilities of HR. HR needs to set itself up for success to shape a digital transformation. Not just to be a partner in the process to become a digital organisation, but to shape what that looks like and then help to transform the organisation to become digital. I’ve seen that happen in a number of companies and I think that will ultimately change the role HR has in a company.

There is another reason this will accelerate – the crisis we had with COVID, but also now wellbeing and wage inflation. The cost of human capital is increasing. All these things together are part of the biggest challenges that companies are facing nowadays. HR is right at the centre of these challenges, and better able than anyone in the company to come up with solutions and deliver those. So, that is also what I think will drive transformation in HR.

Thank you to Thomas for speaking to our HR recruitment team in the Netherlands, led by Katie Insley.

Views and opinions contained within our Executive Interviews are those of the interviewee and not views shared by EMEA Recruitment. 

Frans Kools is since February 2022 the Group HR Director | CHRO at Barentz International in Amsterdam. He previously spent ten years at Staples Solutions, where he was the Group HR Director for EMEA.

How do you create diverse teams?

You hope that organisations grow and, with growing, you have lots of opportunities to hire the right talent for the envisioned change. Then, in an organic way you can achieve diversity within your team and your organisation.

It’s always an accelerated growth, which gave me the lucky opportunity to add diversity; and we all understand the importance of having an inclusive and diverse team.

Having diverse teams means that you can create critical mass. With critical mass, innovations comes along and you are able to look from different perspectives at a situation or challenge.

It’s not a difficult discussion why it’s important - I think we all know why it is important, it’s more about how to get diverse teams organized as you simply don’t dismiss people to replace them for the sake of diversity.

Find your opportunities and ensure that the stakeholders in your organisation are on the same page, and make it happen.

What different challenges have you faced with recruitment before and after COVID?

Before COVID, we (@Staples) had like many our challenges in finding the right digital talent. What you did see those days in every organisation, every sector and every industry is that they were developing with an emphasis on digitalisation, but the number of people who had the right digital talent was not covering the need of the market. In Europe, you saw concentrations of digital talent in e.g. Amsterdam, London and also Berlin. So, it also depended on where your business was located.

Also the costs of labour influenced our recruitment strategy and forced us to recruit smarter. All in all enough reasons to open HUB’s to help us to hire the required talent at a cost we could afford. That is why we opened e.g. a HUB for Information Technology in Gdansk and a Creative Studio in Lisbon.

Covid changed hiring, because we have proven our capability to work hybrid and not necessarily be in the office five days a week. I think everyone will remember the managers that required you to keep the seat warm; some colleagues possibly need to be controlled, but most of us not. 

Yes, it can be needed to keep the seat warm when you work at a cash desk in a store to serve customers, but office positions normally don’t require that. The capability to work partly from home and partly in the office, has given us opportunities to hire now employees who’re living further away and were previously not interested to work for you due to the 5 days of commuting. Now they can work part of the week from home they’re interested, so with that your pool of candidates enlarged.

When you are capable as an organisation to manage your workforce based on output and not just on instruction and control, then COVID has brought you recruitment opportunities.

What does your current organisation, Barentz, do to drive its sustainability agenda?

Barentz is the Global Life Science and Specialty Performance Ingredients Distributor specialising in Human Nutrition, Pharmaceuticals, Personal Care, Performance Materials and Animal Nutrition, creating unique synergies across all fields of expertise.

At Barentz, we acknowledge our responsibility to contribute to a more sustainable world. We have developed a Global ESG organization to champion sustainability initiatives.

Our responsible sourcing policy seeks to ensure ethical practices in our supply chain, reduce environmental impact, and support workers and growing communities. These values include how we work with our suppliers across our supply chain.

In our role as distributor, we have always had a strong focus on long-term relationships with suppliers as well as with customers. An important part of our role in the supply chain is that we continuously monitor global developments that could pose a threat to these relationships. More importantly, we look at opportunities that could improve our partnerships.

So we develop strong partnerships, deliver ingredients and customized solutions for a more sustainable world. As the leading ingredient distributor at the very heart of life science, we know that ecosystem’s long-term prosperity is ultimately our own. That’s why at Barentz, we’re in the business of creating better solutions that enable sustained success for our customers and communities, our principles, people and ultimately the planet. And so, empowered by principles of knowledge, entrepreneurship, and partnership, we’re persistently conquering old challenges while unearthing entirely new opportunities. This continuous pursuit of better is what Barentz was founded on seven decades ago, and it’s what continues to be the key ingredients shaping our future success.

What changes have you seen in the employment market in the past five years?

The biggest change I experienced is the infrastructure needed to ensure a better work-life balance, which was already in progress but further forced to by COVID. What you see is that COVID really made a change enabling a new balance in work and personal life – which doesn’t necessarily mean that people were going to work less. I see that it has increased productivity; employees have been much more efficient, however not necessarily more effective. It reminds me to what happened when the iPad came on the market in 2010, and when we decided to provide one to each employee. The productivity increased tremendously as employees were using the iPad on the couch at night to answer their e-mail. The iPad was for me personally the first big gamechanger to better manage my work life balance.

I also see discussions popping up that people should be at work again for five days a week. We should not forget that about half of the workforce in Western Europe is not working in an office, but in e.g. a warehouse, production facility, store,  schools, hospitals, etc. and simply can not work remotely due to a nature of their job. For those people who do have the opportunity - and if you have it organised in a good way - it certainly will have a positive effect on the output. Hybrid working is by the way not just related to working from home, it’s also about managing your workforce based on output. It’s about freedom when and where to get the work done and not per se to work from 9 to 5. 

I think this is currently the biggest shift in the employment market in how we organise labour and why employees choose for one company versus the other.

You are currently shaping the HR function at Barentz to facilitate the accelerated growth, could you share an insight into this process?

Barentz has experienced an accelerated growth in the last two to three years, in this period we have been growing from appr. €800 million to appr. €2.5 billion.

Barentz currently employs 2.500+ employees in 90+ companies in 70+ countries and on 4 continents.  There are larger and smaller companies and different divisional concentrations per continent which impacts the way how to organise HR locally, regionally and globally.

The operational HR, so contracting and payrolling, has always been organised locally and I support this set up based on the size of the average company and the variety in local rules and regulation. 

What’s more important is that we’re aligned in the way we think, in terms of purpose and values and make sure that we hire new people who are a fit for purpose to strengthen our DNA.

We have a low natural attrition rate and attract those employees who’re driven by knowledge and entrepreneurship. We like our employees to develop their knowledge, think out of the box and constantly look for new formulated solutions for our principals and customers. We have a high percentage of employees that work for our companies for 10+ years. New companies are joining us through our M&A activities, because they feel comfortable with our family principles, because they trust our company to be a perfect fit for their future purpose. Through our partnerships we make more happen.

So, how will we build HR further? HR supports regionally the HR agenda for the respective region, which is different per region as one region is more established than the other. We facilitate all those different companies by a good philosophy on personal development, and make sure that people across the organisation will become able to better network, making use of the relations and knowledge we have within our organisation. We have therefore introduced the Barentz Academy, a new learning and development platform developed by Cornerstone, to support our philosophy on Performance Management, Succession Planning and Learning which will be - by the end of this year - implemented in all our 70+ countries. The Barentz Academy, where all the knowledge can be found stands for who Barentz is. This continuous pursuit knowledge is what Barentz was founded on seven decades ago, and it’s what continues to be the key ingredients shaping our future success. This is a good example of how we build HR.

How would you prioritise your work and social life and ensure that your wellbeing is still intact?

I believe HR is my second nature. Each day feels like a Saturday for me, as I love my job and want to be the best HR professional I can be. I love to be surrounded by people who are likeminded.

You can say I have two families; one I’m really married to and the other one I’m professionally married to. For me, my HR team is kind of like a family. My partner is an HR professional, and my eldest daughter is a recent HR graduate, so you can guess what the topics are when we’re having dinner.

What advice would you give to someone who is starting their career within HR?

Please start in HR-administration, in HR operations as a generalist. Most HR graduates want to start as an HR advisor or as a HR business partner; I can understand that they have that ambition, but it’s important to first make some miles in the HR back office, the HR operations which I see as a roundabout where all effects of the HR centres of expertise come together and become visible. A great place to learn and see what HR can do to an organization and what comes along with it. You see and can learn from the issues that are caused by maybe not good HR business partnering, wrong hires or not well thought restructuring. You learn best when you learn on mistakes. When you know how not to do something, you know how to do it right.

It also gives you the time to understand where you fit best. Give it time - on average, we work for 40-50 years, so don’t rush - look around, be open to learn and develop to become the best HR professional. You can have an opinion, but also make sure you listen to others and keep your eyes and ears open.

What interesting books or podcasts are you currently reading or listening to?

I want to share my most favourite one, which I believe I have read maybe ten times. It’s The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People from Stephen Covey. When you have studied HR, it should be on your list.

Now, I am listeing to an audiobook called Growing the Elephant by Chris Altizer. I met Chris during one of the think-thank sessions with David Ulrich in London where we discussed the future of the HR Business Partner model. Chris used to be the Senior Vice President, Human Resources for Pfizer. Today he’s giving lectures at Florida International University.  

He actually discusses the inclusion and diversity subject in different ways; you cannot change a culture that easily, as it takes time. He gives some great advice in his book. You have to take advantage of the opportunities; he shares some good examples of how it can work and how we can deal with it. I would say it’s one that I would advise everyone to read. To summarise what the book is about, I would call it the DNA transformation.

In your opinion, how will HR evolve in the next five years?

We are discussing constantly how HR is developing and what HR is going to look like, and how we organise it with business partners, centres of expertise and with operations.

Of course, the administration part is developing through digitalisation, but it is becoming more and more important how we acquire talent. I think it is important that we hire people that are really a fit for purpose. The attention on good talent acquisition, as well as the profession, is key. I would say that we were always looking to complement the hard part of HR and I do see there is a growing need for a better-balanced work life.

We need to be more creative about what the purpose of the organisation is and what kind of people will be needed. The need to make sure that your proposition is clear, your team is fit for purpose, and that you know what exactly is a good fit, and hire the right people that can add the value needed.

Make sure that you engage with the people in your organisation and you not only say what your values are, but that you breathe and live them. Ensure the programmes you provide are able to engage your staff and make them feel comfortable. That also means that you have to look at wellbeing. HR is going more and more in that direction.

Thank you to Frans for speaking to our HR recruitment team in the Netherlands, led by Katie Insley.

Views and opinions contained within our Executive Interviews are those of the interviewee and not views shared by EMEA Recruitment. 

Gwen Burbidge is the CHRO at WeTransfer in Amsterdam. She started her Human Resources career as an intern at Organon over 20 years ago. Gwen has extensive experience in different industries, including healthcare, scientific publishing, and the IT and tech sector, which took her to WeTransfer in 2019.

What are the recruitment challenges that you face at the moment at WeTransfer?

The main challenge we're facing is the constant flux that we're experiencing - from going fully remote and starting to build out your remote workforce, to a period where people are a little bit more willing or maybe even needing to have social interactions and wanting to come back to the office more.

At WeTransfer, we work with an Employer of Record solution for some of our international hires, through a company called Deel, to help us employ people in other countries - opposed to the countries we have entities in - to really make use of the remote work opportunities. But it's complex to hire in multiple countries, so it’s important to investigate your options well.

Even if you have a partner like Deel, which takes away the burden of having having to research everything yourself and design the right contracts with all the right specifications for that specific country, and making sure we pay all of our social taxes and normal taxes, income taxes, and everything you need to do, it's still challenging.

We have noticed changes in the tech recruitment market; we see so many tech companies struggling to either find funding or running out of funding that they need to downsize their workforce. We often see these companies being open about it and sharing the details of their employees to help them secure new jobs.

Profitable companies, like WeTransfer, are therefore in a better place with regards to being able to attract, still scarce, tech talent, so we are able to focus more on our hubs in the UK, the Netherlands and the USA. We are able to provide visas for the Netherlands and will provide relocation assistance.

WeTransfer has a hybrid approach to work. You do not have to come to the office, but if you do like to come, you are more than welcome.

How do you feel the workplace will have changed as we emerge from the global pandemic?

That's also very much in line with what we just discussed. I think, at WeTransfer, we were struggling before the pandemic with remote work. We were in a constant debate whether we were remote-friendly, or remote-first, or remote at all.

There were different parts of our business that used different definitions for remote work, as well. Our Engineering team was not remote-first, but was definitely remote-friendly. Our Creative team was not remote at all; everybody needed to be in the office to make use of each other's creativity and the tools we have available.

What the fully remote period has taught us is that we really need to be thoughtful, and make sure we don't underestimate and under-utilise our remote talent, because - every time you set up a meeting that is not remote-friendly - you're losing out, because you won't get as much input from your remote team as you could.

The reason why you hired remote people is often because they are very specifically skilled. So, it's a double negative if you hire these rare specialists, but then you don't set up your meetings or your teams in a way that they can excel. That is something that we've learned, and now we need to persevere our learning and not fall back into our old habits.

I go to the office maybe two or three times a week and it is such a nice energy; it is so nice to not have to talk to people on the screen.

There was some research recently which said that 82% of employees feel they are more productive at home, whereas 87% of managers think people are more productive in the office. So, I do wonder: are managers not productive when working from home?

In your opinion, what changes have you seen to the employment market in the Netherlands?

I'm not super familiar with the employment market in the Netherlands, because most of the people that we hire have an international background.

What I've seen overall in the employment market is that there is a real desire to work for companies that make an impact and want to do good in whatever way, shape or form.

For example, we have a position open for an Executive Assistant for our CEO and CFO. I think, because we're B Corp, and because we do wonderful creative work and want to support the creative industry and creators and creatives, we had 250 applications in two days, which is mind-blowing. Luckily, I don't have to review all the CVs, but I was looking at the first 12 that were selected by our recruiter, and they were all amazing CVs. Many of them referenced the B Corp.

The first reason why they want to work with us - the engineers, designers and the creatives - is because of our products. They love the product, they love the creativity, they love the work that we do with artists, so that's number one, and then our people. After that, it's really B Corp and wanting to do the right thing.

Of course, there's so many things we can still improve on, but having that focus and being vocal about it helps people discover our organisation. Being vocal is always scary, because once you’re vocal about it, you will be scrutinised every step of the way. Our employees are also super critical on everything that we do as a business. This keeps all of us on our toes and gives us some unique advantage over other employers.

What is a memorable moment from your career and why?

I think my most memorable moment was in my previous role. I was VP People Services for a US healthcare company called DaVita, and we ran dialysis clinics in different countries. I was responsible for Europe and the Middle East. My region included Poland, Portugal, Germany, and the head office in the Netherlands - all in all, an organisation of around 600 people.

I thought, this is a nice comfortable step back into being part of a team again, which I really missed, having been a freelancer for six-and-a-half years when my kids were small.

I think it was two months after I joined when my boss called me and said, you need to go and buy in Abaya. I didn’t even know what an Abaya was. He said, you need to get a visa and go to Saudi Arabia, as we had just won a massive tender there to build around 26 clinics and treat 5,000 patients from scratch.

There was absolutely nothing there. There were zero people. There was one person, actually, a Country Manager, and that was it. And it was like, okay, you need to go over there, find out what we need from a people perspective, and sort it out.

That journey for me lasted about four years. In that time, we hired 800 people, and we built 23 clinics. But, what was memorable about it, is that Saudi Arabia is a country you've never experienced before and probably never will. It's not very friendly to foreign workers and it's not known for being very friendly to women, so I was very nervous about going.

To find our healthcare workers, we had to travel to India, the Philippines, Jordan and Egypt, and many other countries to recruit nurses and doctors. For me, this was such a learning experience. For example, the healthcare workers from the Philippines are extremely well-educated, knowledgeable and simply amazing at what they do; it is a way of life for them to go to another country, earn enough to repay their student loans and save to be able to buy a house back home. They know this choice will make them only see their children once a year for their holidays.

Mind blowing to me, so I found it really hard, and I was ready to say, we're not doing this, we're not hiring anybody with kids. However, my colleague said, if we hired them, we can take care of them in the way that is best for them, so let's make sure they have the best experience, because - if we don't hire them - somebody else will and they will go, because they have all these financial obligations.

It was super tough, and I learned so much about myself and about my values. I learned how to build a community within the walls of our clinics, where women could manage Saudi men, which was unthinkable outside of the walls of our clinics.

I interviewed all the doctors myself when we started, because I wanted to be absolutely sure they would be open to having a female boss. I interviewed maybe 50 doctors, maybe more, from different countries.

For example, if they would not turn on their screen when interviewing with me, that was a clear signal. I would ask them questions, I would do little case studies, asking them about a nurse that would come up to them and challenge their decision on a prescription for a certain patient, and how they would respond to that. Very simple questions, I think, but very revealing.

This method obviously is not 100% waterproof, but it starts with being very intentional about your recruitment and not taking any chances. If you see an orange flag, just do not hire.

How do you feel a job seeker can stand out in the current market?

That’s a very tough question, to be honest, because - if you think about a job seeker - I immediately go to a CV and those kinds of things. In the olden days, when I started my career, you still needed to write a motivation letter; that is almost never the case anymore.

Sometimes, you do have to fill in a couple of questions, which I think is really helpful, because it gives you insights into the motivation, passion, drive and the energy that somebody brings, and that is really what makes me hire people.

I know my Head of Recruitment does not like me saying that, because we need to look at skills and competencies, and that's also very true. I also feel that, with the right curiosity and willingness, there's so much you can learn. You don't need to have done everything on the list.

I can struggle with CVs that have one year here, and then six months here… I know I shouldn’t look at that too hard - especially if they have worked at start-ups - as that is sometimes start-up life.

Start-ups are not always successful and then you need to move on. But, for me, it’s really important that somebody - at least once in their career - has gone through all the difficulties; making certain decisions and then having to deal with the outcomes of these decisions, by going through a couple of cycles and knowing that things change, and you have to adapt to that change.

Sticking it out for a little while is something that is important to me; it doesn’t necessarily need to be in the workspace, but somewhere. That, for me, shows some commitment and also some perseverance.

Who is the most inspiring person in business for you and why?

That is such a tough question, so I'm going to cop out of it a little bit. My answer is all the emerging social impact entrepreneurs. Entrepreneurs that are really setting up their business, like Toms shoes, where you buy a pair of shoes and then a pair of shoes is given to someone else. Or CTalents, who work hard to make sure we don’t miss out on the talent out there with hearing or visual limitations, but plenty of other skills to compensate.

There’re so many initiatives and there're so many really motivated, clever and dedicated people out there. I find it really hard to name one.

My last question: how will digital transformation change the role of HR?

I think it already has. We were talking about this not too long ago, when we were looking at the strategy of WeTransfer and how that then influences the HR strategy. There's a clear need for us to become more data-driven. Everybody says that, but what does that mean? What are you going to do with the data and how are you going to interpret it? What decision can you make based on data and what decisions do you have to be a little bit careful with? So, what we said was, we want to be data informed and human-driven.

What I've seen in some of the larger organisations is a tendency to really focus on data and then forgetting about the human aspect. A lot of the new systems allow managers to be much more hands-on and do many of the tasks that originally were part of the HR tasks. In a lot of ways, that is really good, because I think you have the closest relationship with your manager. So, the more equipped and the more informed they are, the better they are able to help you, and to assist you, and help you grow and thrive.

The HR team can then take a step back and look at the wider trends affecting the organisation, so I think that's the good part of the digitalisation. We just have to be thoughtful, that being data-driven does not replace the human connection.

I think digital transformation has changed HR for the better; there is more autonomy and support for people managers, and I think employees also enjoy being able to do a lot of the things themselves, and having the tools and access to the tools to organise their work, and organise their benefits, or organise other parts.

Overall, I think it’s been good. We just have to be careful about humans becoming statistics.

Thank you to Gwen for speaking to our HR recruitment team in the Netherlands, led by Katie Insley.

Views and opinions contained within our Executive Interviews are those of the interviewee and not views shared by EMEA Recruitment. 

Patricia Gielis is the HR Director at Radboud University in Nijmegen, the Netherlands. She started her HR career in the financial services sector, at Rabobank and ABN AMRO Bank.

How is Radboud University reducing bias in the hiring process?

In the past 12 months, we have been adjusting vacancies and the words we use.

We have experts within the university looking into the language used and analysing the words we use in our job vacancies, we are also looking into using different words to invite others who we really want to welcome within our university.

We are analysing which parts of the labour market potential candidates are currently working in, actively searching for them, connecting with them and inviting them to an interview within the university. This helps us to find out what they need to relate to the university, our mission and goals. 

We have a pilot programme, where we have started to facilitate anonymous applications. We do not ask for an address, a name, age, gender, etc. Based on a anonymous resume and letter we invite potential candidates for an interview.

Finally, we’ve also adjusted the composition of the recruitment committees, ensuring it’s an inclusive committee with a diverse variety of male, female, national and cultural backgrounds, and different views, to give candidates a sense of belonging and to have different insights and opinions of everyone at the table.

What does your university do to raise awareness around mental health and wellbeing?

We have a number of initiatives. Twice a year we organise vitality weeks. This is an opportunity for students and employees to attend to lectures, workshops, training, and sports activities, as well as given advice on healthy food, the power of sleeping and how to breathe. We want to raise awareness on how you can take care of yourself and what you might need to improve your health or wellbeing. 

We also use flyers to prompt thoughts, for example, making the suggestion to use the stairs instead of the elevator. We give advice on how to cook and eat well, and we offer vegetarian and vegan meals; which is also related to our sustainability goals. The Dean of the University uses the vitality and wellbeing aspect often in his blog and our weekly newsletter to promote this.

Finally, the employees often organise meetings about research or host lectures, where they invite students and employees to share their thoughts and advice around wellbeing and mental health, and it relates to social safety and how it can contribute to your mental wellbeing.

One of the topics we are struggling with in the University at present, is reducing work stress. This can lead to a possible burn-out and create an unsafe environment to work in. Our HR strategy for the University is based on creating the best place for you to work in - meaning you can use your talents and grow in whatever direction suits you at that time in your life. We want to support you and also challenge you to keep on learning from your colleagues. Therefore, you have to build a safe environment to be able to learn and grow for this to be achieved.

How do you see the Dutch economy evolving in the next three to five years?

Looking at the Dutch and global economy, I recognize a couple of shifts causing insecurities on different levels. For instance, financially, social safety and labour related.

Inflation and high energy costs have presented themselves and I expect these will stay on the agenda for the upcoming year. Similar to the pandemic, the current global topics and challenges can be seen as a “black swan;” you didn’t see it coming, the impact is enormous and will change the world. I believe a mind shift is necessary to combine different views and opinions and build toward joined solutions.

When I look at the labour market, in The Netherlands (but also globally) we have an ageing population on one hand, and on the other hand, we see an increasing number of people who have to leave work due to burn-out caused by work-related stress. In addition, an increasing group of employees experience a mismatch regarding current and future skills. I feel employers should take responsibility in guiding employees towards the future, preparing them for change to come and build an environment where employees can learn and grow. This will contribute to sustainable employability and wellbeing.

Translating these topics into the way they impact the university, we as an employer have to find answers regarding work related stress, financial insecurities, sustainable employability, and continuous learning. And now I am only mentioning a few of the themes our current HR strategy is built on.

We want to build a safe (body and mind) environment in which people can grow. We have launched a code of conduct that explains how we can and want to relate to one another, also how important safety and a social safe environment is to grow.

What would you say is the most rewarding part of your role?

The most rewarding part for me is building organisations with people and enabling my colleagues to get the best out of themselves and therefore reach the organisational goals. For me it’s important that the organisational goals have a societal impact, and it is possible to contribute as an individual and with a team.

I have a background within the financial industry. This sector also has a part to play within the economy, to keep the economy balanced and support people in realising their dreams by making sure their money is safe. Economy is -for the largest part as I see it- emotion, and trust. Banks and financial institutions have a responsibility in supporting that. 

Having said that, the University has a different mission, but with the same underlying goal – to contribute to a sound society, in which people can fulfil their dreams and prepare them for it. The most rewarding part for me in my profession is to enable organisations and the people working within them, to reach their goals.

I feel energised when I see change happen. This can be on an individual level, but also when I see change happening for the better on a larger organisational scale.

What tips would you have for others in achieving work-life balance?

Love what you do. Otherwise, seek to change jobs or career. Remember you are in the driving seat.

Listen to feedback, as people mean well. Manage your schedule and take good care of yourself, which also means sometimes you’ll have to be firm with yourself. When you can see a disbalance
- this can be self-caused, therefore, reflect on the current and desired situation and set your priorities.

What is your favourite business motto and why?

My favourite business motto is: “Be the change you want to see in the world.” This has been my favourite motto for a very long time.

In HR, we have an important role to play with regard to taking care of our people & our organisation.

Find the balance between building and co-creating and addressing challenging topics you know can cause friction. This takes courage and perseverance.

In your opinion, what does the future of HR look like?

I believe we will grow towards having an impact on the cultural and organisational development.

When looking at the developments within the future of HR, 70% of the work we currently do on a daily basis will be digitised, leading towards a shift in jobs and what we contribute to an organisation.

We have a couple of challenges, and in coming years, we will increasingly use artificial intelligence and data, combined with our responsibility to take care of our people and to guide the organisation towards cultural change, organisational growth, and development.

There will be a shift with regard to our profession, and our daily business currently reflects on that, as we have skills that we need to build on. We spoke about the skills or knowledge in talent mismatch earlier – this is something that’s happening within the HR profession due to digitalisation. When we see this happening, we can prepare ourselves for it.

I believe the human dimension will be increasingly more important for the HR agenda. Over the past decade, we have designed and standardised processes from the perspective of one-size-fits-all. Today we are building towards a one-size-fits-me approach and employee experience.

We can of course use data to predict what will happen when we intervene in different ways, and combine this with the human dimension. In the upcoming years, I feel this will become more important for our HR agenda.

Thank you to Patricia for speaking to our HR recruitment team in the Netherlands, led by Katie Insley. 

Views and opinions contained within our Executive Interviews are those of the interviewee and not views shared by EMEA Recruitment. 

Efrat Konforty is the Chief People Officer at albelli-Photobox Group. She was previously the Head of HR at Marktplaats (part of eBay) in Amsterdam, before moving to uniQure, Optiver, OYO Vacation Homes, and Bauer Media Group.

What excites you about albelli-Photobox Group and what was it about it that attracted you to join?

When I think about it, there are two main things that attracted me. One is the consumer part; I really like when a business has a consumer element to it. We are all consumers, we all know what it means to be a consumer, and we all know what it means to receive bad service or a bad product, I like to be a part of giving good products and good service.

The second reason I joined is because the organisation is the result of a merger between two commercially complimentary groups. They are not competing with one another; they are actually enabling one another to grow even better. They are both great brands and they have a product that makes us smile. It’s consumers, it’s joy, it’s something that is sustainable for a long period of time; if it’s merged together, and it’s actually really an achievement to build a new brand and continue bringing in joy.

In terms of the next 12 months, what would you perceive to be the biggest challenges in the business and your role within the organisation?

I think that the biggest challenge for any organisation these days is basically what’s happening in the world. As much as we bring joy to people, we bring joy by bringing together materials, and materials cost money. From the price of raw materials to the shipment, the cost of everything has increased, and it takes a toll on all, employees and customers, who just want to enjoy their photos.

Other challenges surrounding us are how we become a more sustainable organisation and how we keep our products affordable. The need to be smart, while being socially responsible, is a challenge for any organisation, us included. Internally, how are we continuing to support people who are working with ambiguity? There are many challenges around that. However, that’s one of the reasons why I joined this organisation, because it has social responsibility.

The product needs to be accessible to everyone and we need to be an organisation where both the product and the organisation is accessible to everyone. As an organisation, we aren’t there yet, but I will put it on the agenda for the next 12 months.

In terms of your role, have you identified some ways in which your function can contribute to that sustainable vision and accessibility to everybody?

We have a sustainable strategy that we’re putting into different pillars - people being one of the leading 3 pillars. These pillars range from the basic requirements - such as creating a safe and healthy environment - all the way to ensuring inclusivity.

As a company, we’re setting clear targets and strategies that are not limited to one thing. We look at the planet, we look at the people, we look at the environment - we have different pillars and clear strategies to make sure that all ambitions mature.

As an organisation, what sort of things have you or your organisation done to really support wellbeing in the workplace and positive mental health within business?

At this stage, we need to develop a programme for that. If I look at my past and the organisations that I have worked with, it was always one of the first topics of discussion. I think that one of the ways to be able to support wellbeing is by giving personal responsibilities to people and volunteering days, so they can actually decide what they would like to do with themselves.

When I worked at eBay, one of their strengths was their work surrounding charities. This was done either by offering voluntary days, or through donating their presence, such as real estate and website placements, to charities allowing them to achieve a broader exposure. It isn’t exactly wellbeing of the people, but by being involved in different social activities, it contributes to a positive wellbeing.

The pandemic created a big situation around wellbeing - we all know about it, we talked about it, and there is a lot of material out there to address it. One of the things that I clearly see with wellbeing, like development, is that it’s in the hands of the person.

The company can be blamed for a lot of things. But, eventually, if the company allows a person to work remotely, and allows for flexible working hours, and the person is not taking advantage of it, and letting the time pass without structure and personal commitment, it becomes a chicken and egg situation of who is responsible for the growing workload and tasks.

A company can provide a lot of platforms, but eventually, it’s in the hands of the employee to own their wellbeing and their personal and professional development. It’s the responsibility of the company to ensure that there is enough time and paths allocated for these topics.

We are all finding new ways of working; it is not one organisation versus the other. You can open LinkedIn and see the positive effects of hybrid working, etc.

However, for you to receive your photo album or calendar from us, people need to actually print it and other people need to ship and deliver it. So, when talking about social awareness, if everyone is shouting you must offer hybrid working, we forget about the population that is actually serving the product and delivering it to our homes, making sure that we can actually enjoy the greatness that we are ourselves creating.

When we demand hybrid working everywhere, we are actually paralysing ourselves. The product would not be able to go without the printer and the delivery will not arrive without the delivery person - there is a huge population that cannot work hybrid and we need to respect, and acknowledge them.

If you think about HR as a profession and people’s perception is of it, what do you think is the biggest myth that you’d like to debunk?

It’s a question I’m asking when I hire an HR business partner. What does BP mean? I ask them to describe what the P is and, depending on the description, I end the conversation and say, “Do you understand the difference between Partnership or are you a Police officer?”

The biggest myth about HR is: Are we HR or are we police officers? Are we a stick or are we actually an enabler, a partner? I hope we are more and more true partners, less HR and more People.

Looking back over your career so far, what would you highlight as being a personal highlight for you?

I am most proud of being in positions and in companies where the value of people leads. Where I, with a dedicated team, can drive culture by diversity of backgrounds and create a safe place to work in, no matter what the nationality, religion, orientation or other background is; the individual skills and personality leads.

Is there another direction that you might have taken if it wasn’t HR, or maybe even something that you might want to do in the future as a second career?

That’s a question I ask myself often, because the reason I moved to the Netherlands 19 years ago was because I fell in love with a Dutch guy. I actually dropped everything and had the opportunity to rebuild myself, and decide which path I would like to take.

I think that it broadened the responsibilities of HR at that time. So, it didn’t eliminate HR and business operations, but what I did drop when I moved and actually really liked (and surprisingly I look at it now from a different angle) is photography.

I like photography and I really like to write, as well. I dropped both writing and photography when I moved, and reinvented myself in the Netherlands. But now, being in albelli-Photobox Group, I have built up my attachment back to photography. So, I would probably take photography up again, and maybe some writing. But, honestly, now with blogs all over the place and everyone writing about everything, it’s taken the charm of writing away, so I will focus on reading.

Finally, thinking back to when you were a child, who was the person or the people that you most admired and why?

It’s a cliché, but my dad. I come from a very unique family that is very small. It’s unique, because two people fell in love and then their siblings fell in love with each other, as well. It’s not a marriage within the family, but it’s a very small family.

Actually, one of the achievements belonging to my family is that all family members - both male and female - have succeeded immensely. But there are two pieces of advice that I learnt from my dad that have really stuck with me.

First of all, look into the eyes of every person - look straight into their eyes, don’t block, don’t fool, don’t patronise, just be straight. It doesn’t matter who you are; the person in front of you is the person. Be big enough to level up to the smallest and to the biggest. A person is a person and that is what I heavily learnt in my family.

The second thing is, don’t allow anyone to actively walk over you just because you are in a lower position. Never be the aggressor, never be aggressive. It is fine to defend your values and your morals.

Thank you to Efrat for speaking to Katie Insley, Associate Director in our HR recruitment team in the Netherlands.

Views and opinions contained within our Executive Interviews are those of the interviewee and not views shared by EMEA Recruitment.