Casper Zorg is a senior HR professional based in Amsterdam. He is currently an Interim HR Executive/PMO at HR Advance, having previously been VP Human Resources at AEG Power Solutions and EMEA HR Director for Hoya Vision Care.

What was the best interview experience that you have had to date?

The best interview experience that I’ve had was very early on in my career. I remember the interview at the time was with a Dutch HR Director. He was very much focused on my areas of strength and weakness and my personal interests within the HR field. I guess that had to do with the fact that I didn’t really have much work experience at the time - maybe two or three years in total - so there wasn’t very much to dig in there, which meant it became a broader conversation around what I was interested in focusing on.

It was my first step into the international HR field, so it was quite a broad role with various projects in a number of countries. It was quite a diverse role to begin with and a good role to start a career with.

Out of all the positions you have held over your career, which position excited you the most?

I would have to say Global Mobility Manager. It’s a position where a lot of different things come together. From a content perspective, you have a legal and a compliance side relating to employment contracts, visas, permits, that kind of thing.

It also puts into play Comp & Ben in multiple countries, migrating a person from country A to country B. That’s a comparison that goes beyond your standard salary and bonus, also looking at tax climates, things like that. And then there are also the cultural differences, moving someone from Brazil to Vietnam, for example. So, there are a lot of different HR elements in that context that come together.

What changes have you seen to the employment market in the Netherlands over the years and, in your opinion, what have been the drivers for the changes?

In the 15 years that I have spent in my career, there have been a couple of macro developments that have really shaken the employment market in the Netherlands.

I remember, when I started my career, we had a credit crisis - companies were restructuring in difficult economic times. Right now, we are in opposite times, where we have a shrinking labour market in western countries, combined with a decreasing interest to work with your hands - that presents challenges for companies in specific sectors.

It goes beyond the war on talent; it’s kind of “social status-driven”. People nowadays are more and more driven by the title they hold and the salary they earn, and that just means that working with your hands is not sexy anymore.

Looking ahead to the next five years or so, what we will also see is a concerning and profound discussion that I’m expecting will take place in the Netherlands - and probably in Western Europe as a whole. There is a very strong increase in convenience - or middleman jobs. There are a lot of people these days who get groceries delivered and order everything online, meaning there is a lot of workforce consumed in the convenience area and, at the same time, we have increasing shortages in what I would call critical occupations like nurses, teachers and probably transportation.

I expect that, in the next five years or so, we will see some societal discussions on how we can refocus the labour force.

What risks have you taken throughout your career and how did they help you get to the level that you are at today?

I’ve chosen my career steps quite specifically, focusing on getting the experience and the knowledge in different fields of international HR. So, HR project management is a great starting point, because you get involved in a whole range of HR topics and aspects, performance management, Comp & Ben development… From there, I specifically moved to Comp & Ben, which was mainly driven by the fact that there’s quite a high demand for that.

The natural step from there was global mobility to get the legal/compliance side, the contract set-up, and get that knowledge, and then the leadership experience. I guess in all those positions, I’ve taken a fair chunk of risk in the sense that I didn’t really have the knowledge and background at the time for those roles, but I basically decided that I would work for the experience and knowledge up to my 30^th, and later on for the money. Up until my 30^th, I would say that I spent probably ten to 15 hours a week to gain the knowledge and capabilities that I needed to perform my current job well.

The fundamental question in building your career is whether or not you are willing to spend personal time to increase your knowledge and capabilities. More than once, I have had people ask if I could make a certain amount of time available to teach people how to become proficient with Excel and other skills, and I am always willing to do that… between 5pm-7pm; outside of work time. Interestingly enough, about 80% of people are then no longer interested, because they don’t want to spend personal time building their capabilities; they want to spend company time.

What is your favourite business motto and why?

I have a favourite motto, which is actually hanging in my bedroom. Not necessarily a business motto, but it’s a big plaque that just reads, “Life starts at the end of your comfort zone.”

Throughout my career, I’ve had many tips and advice on what I should or shouldn’t do but, ultimately, of course, you need to assess that for yourself.

There were two in particular that stood out for me. One is, work until age x for the experience and thereafter for the money. If you want to bump up your salary earlier, you need to be aware that you will face higher expectations, which means you will no longer be that star talent, because, if you’re paid as a professional, you are expected to act as a professional.

Advice that I remember from my very first job was from the CFO. He recommended that, whenever someone asks you if you’re willing to pick up a certain challenge, first say yes and then consider what you just said yes to. That kind of attitude will automatically push you to take on challenges that are outside of your comfort zone, which will give you the strongest learning curve ultimately.

What advice would you give to aspiring HR leaders?

The best advice I can give is to not go over people’s backs. I have seen too many people elbowing their way to senior positions - it never really works well; you leave a trail of bodies behind. Certainly, for an aspiring HR leader, I think authenticity and the people side are ultimately the most important.

People will naturally know if you’re authentic and if you’re honest. Some people are born with it, most people learn it, but I would say authenticity is probably the biggest asset that you have as an HR leader.

What do you feel the future of HR is?

That’s a very difficult question, because I think the role and the profile of HR as a function has constantly changed and is always changing. I remember when I started my career in difficult economic times, HR was focused on process improvements, restructuring, business transformation, and - as such - was very internally focused.

With the current labour market, the focus is much more on recruitment, onboarding, and on retention, to a large extent, so we see that HR professionals will then automatically be more externally focused.

So, HR kind of follows the macro trends, what is happening in the bigger world, in the country, or maybe even beyond that, and then align our HR perspective accordingly. It depends on the company, the macro situation. This is the interesting thing about HR in general; its’s a bit fluid. The focus is different everywhere and it’s changing all the time.

For the last ten to 15 years or so, we had a pretty profound focus on HR as a business partner; transforming HR functions from administrative payroll/contracts departments into more of a business partnering component. Some people are capable of doing that and some people are not, but that was the worldwide focus, I would say.

The last couple of years, HR is more focused on digital transformation, getting HR systems up and running. I think most companies, by now, have implemented those digital platforms or are currently in the process of finalising that.

Now, we have Web3 and blockchain technology coming up, which is also going to present some interesting developments from a systems perspective. The whole internet and HR systems are moving away from the standard server systems towards a decentralised blockchain storage. That presents some interesting opportunities. When we work for a company, they will have an HR system that will contain a lot of information that you would put in there to create your own profile and, once you start storing that in a blockchain and follow the Web3 development, you would be able to transfer those records between employers, meaning you can build a lifetime profile and better align with the lifetime phasing that everybody goes through. This just serves as an example to indicate that change in one movement can step over into another.

Thank you to Casper for speaking to our HR recruitment team in the Netherlands, led by Katie Insley.

Views and opinions contained within our Executive Interviews are those of the interviewee and not views shared by EMEA Recruitment. 

Sumit Chaudhary is the CFO, EMEA at Foot Locker in the Netherlands. His career has spanned the Big 4, telecoms, travel and FMCG sectors, in countries such as India, the UAE and the UK.

How do you see the Dutch economy evolving over the next five years?

As per recent publications, the expectation is that the Dutch economy in 2022 will grow anywhere between 3-3.5% and about 1.5% next year. Private consumption will continue to support growth and unemployment continues to remain low.

Having said that, the Netherlands is not isolated from the larger impact of the Ukraine war and the inflationary pressures that we are seeing. The Dutch economy drives strength from strong infrastructure that makes it the gateway for Europe.

The work environment is stable and flexible, the work force is well educated, and it continues to be a preferred destination for companies to open their offices. So, I remain very bullish about the future of the Dutch economy - the inflation is a blip, but I think there’s definitely a lot more in store for the Dutch economy.

What do you see as the biggest challenges over the next 12 months in your role as CFO, EMEA at Foot Locker?

If I step back and really look at the biggest challenges over the next 12 to 18 months, what I am going to say is probably not unique to Foot Locker. I think every CFO is probably juggling with the same set of challenges.

Probably three. One is really managing and maintaining talent. The war for talent has never been more intense. A hybrid work environment has created challenges in terms of how you pivot from historical norms of engaging with teams to a hybrid world. So, continue to find ways to invest in talent and your colleagues, and keep them motivated to bring their best to work every day.

The second is managing uncertainty - continuing to manage through the compression and margins and profitability created by inflation. Economic uncertainty is just one big challenge that every CFO or CEO is facing today.

And finally, another element which I do not think is unique is that every board, every business leader is now stepping back and asking the question: how do I stay ahead of the game? The challenge for the CFO, or for me, is to be able to balance being strong on governance and being strong as a strategic advisor to the business team and being able to answer questions. The duality between how you invest for growth versus get fit for growth - I think that’s a continuous challenge.

Having worked across multiple continents and within a diverse market sector, including the Big 4, telecoms, travel and FMCG, what risks have you taken throughout your career to help you get to the level you are at now?

Stepping back, I think three things. One is that you have to be comfortable to make yourself uncomfortable - I think that’s the only way to drive progress. Having been born and brought up in a small city in India and pushing myself to step out of India and work across geography, you have to be comfortable to make yourself uncomfortable.

Second is to be proactive in your work environment and asking for challenges; sometimes you will fail, but - more often than not - that’s going to open a lot more doors for you.

Finally, be willing to make mistakes, but acknowledge that you have made a mistake and learn from that. Vulnerability and honesty, if you bring that to your workplace every day, you will definitely find that doors are opening for you.

What is the most rewarding part of your role?

As a leader, my goal is to ensure that I create the right environment for my team to excel. So, essentially, building upon that, the most rewarding part is to see the impact of the work my team does and also, when colleagues reach out and stop by, acknowledge that. That’s the only momentum one needs as a leader, because that’s all you do as a leader - you’re there to remove roadblocks.

In your opinion, how can leaders create diverse teams?

I would probably say two things. One is it really starts with being deliberate and intentional about talent acquisition, working in partnership with your HR teams; really ensuring that there is a healthy mix of talent that we bring onto our teams.

The other key is cognitive diversity, which basically says that, as a leader, you need to take the lead to build the inclusiveness in all our processes, in all our engagements, ensuring everyone gets a voice. I think that’s the only way one can truly build a diverse team and make sure everyone feels included and their voices heard.

What advice would you give to aspiring leaders?

I would probably repeat some of the advice I have received along the way. I have been blessed to have a lot of good mentors who can help me. Three things stand out for me. One is give your best to the job you’re doing; nothing speaks more than your performance.

Number two is to be proactive and asking for opportunities. Take charge of your career growth; no one else will canvas for you, so you have to take charge of your career growth.

The third thing is always seek and appreciate when someone gives you feedback. I used to take feedback very harshly, but then I realised over time that, if someone is giving me feedback, they are investing in me and they are investing in my growth. So, just having the humility to listen to feedback, internalise it and work upon it, I think that’s a big key to success.

What is your favourite business motto and why?

That will be: answer every question and question every answer. Again, the work we do, as leaders or as professionals that work in the office, is really to make progress. To make progress, you have to answer questions and then, once you get an answer, you do not have to be happy with the answer you get, because that’s being happy with the status quo. Innovation happens only when you challenge the status quo. So, it’s a very interesting mechanism, but answer every question and question every answer.

In addition, if I look back to my journey, I have been blessed with having a lot of mentors. Not all of them have actively coached me; some I have viewed from a distance and learnt from them. It is hard work, dedication and bringing yourself to work every day, I think that really is the key to success.

Thank you to Sumit for speaking to our Finance & Accountancy recruitment team in the Netherlands, led by Hannah Mallia and David Harper.

Views and opinions contained within our Executive Interviews are those of the interviewee and not views shared by EMEA Recruitment. 

Chris Wallace is a senior Supply Chain leader within biopharma. His expertise is focused on building high performing teams and leading supply chains for groundbreaking areas, such as cell and gene therapy.

What have you learnt as a leader over the past 12 months?

The key thing for everyone, let alone a leader, is that you never stop learning. I think what the pandemic did was bring home the need for any leader to be very adaptable to the environment. And that environment was something that was not in our normal span of control; it was something that, despite the best efforts with our politicians, could be either worse or better through reasons that were way beyond our control.

I think one of the key things around that adaptability, as a leader, was making sure that you could obviously do the best you can, but - because the environment was so different - understanding that often it was the case of doing the best you can out of a series of suboptimal choices. You had to make the best of a bad job, try and make the alternative that you had work as best you can, knowing full well that when (if you can call it that) normality returns, that you are going to have to revisit it, revamp it, and so on.

It was the immediacy of having to do something and also keep the understanding of where you wanted to continue to go. You could not lose that vision and insight needed to adapt that solution further.

You saw that, in the initial days of the pandemic, with things like freight capacity. I can remember one incident where I was being asked to do things in a particular market and there just weren’t any drivers - there were none available, and it didn’t matter who you asked as a supplier, you couldn’t get any. So, we came up with a different methodology and different way of doing it. We had to really think differently and be incredibly adaptive to the situation. Acceptance was not an option, otherwise we would let our patients down, some who were seriously ill.

Towards the end of the pandemic period, we saw the shutdowns in China, which again impacted supply chains hugely and, again, leaders had to adapt to that situation. It was not something where they could pick up the phone, for example, lambast the supplier and get something organised as an alternative. It was a necessity to do what you could within the space and the environment that you had.

In terms of mentoring more junior people in their early careers, how could they have learnt to be adaptable through COVID?

I think it’s more of the same, albeit, obviously, it can be at a different level, but always be thinking and trying to adapt for that situation. One of the key things that I saw, certainly in my team, was the impact of being expected to do A and B and they couldn’t, for whatever reason. They either had to stop, rethink, reassess, reset and, again, most people rose to the challenge magnificently.

I’ve never seen Supply Chain have such a high profile. Part of that was obviously the media frenzy that went with the pandemic, but I think also more junior members of staff did the same adaptation; they started to look at alternative ways of doing things, challenged some of the status quo, which of course was no longer relevant in terms of that particular supply, because of some of the things that did happen with COVID.

What would you say were the bigger challenges for leaders overseeing remote teams?

I’ve run international teams for some time - the basics don’t go away. Yes, we’ve got the technology of Teams, Zoom, etc. - at least when they work, they’ve made things easier - and clearly you can connect with remote teams much more easily.

However, you need to retain that critical personal touch and that can take many forms. As a leader, you need to make yourself available, you need to have your team understanding what is essential, i.e., you don’t want phone calls as a norm at three in the morning, wherever you are. But, in an international organisation across multiple timezones, you need to be incredibly flexible with your availability. Being based in Europe, that means sometimes you have to have early starts if you’re dealing with Asia, late finishes if you’re dealing with the Americas, but you need to be flexible and available to do that mentoring and coaching to develop your team.

I would also add, inevitably, cultural factors come into play. As you know, certain geographies tend to start early, finish early, or work late or whatever it might be, and you, as the leader, need to be aware of that and adapt to it accordingly. It isn’t a one-size-fits-all – that will never work. Instead, you have to get under the skin of your team members and understand what drives them, what motivates them and, bluntly, also what turns them off.

You don’t want your best performers to become demotivated. Your job, as a leader, is to keep that motivation high and also maintain that excellence that you want from your team members.

If you look through your career, the vast majority of it has been within the life sciences sector, more specifically, pharmaceuticals. What would you say to candidates who are considering a move into this sector for the first time?

Like a lot of people – dare I say of my vintage - I fell into Supply Chain by accident. It wasn’t something I’d particularly planned as a career move. I don’t regret it, as I love it; it has that incredible variety! No day, sometimes no hour, or even half-hour, is the same.

You also have so many touchpoints across the business, that you’re really integrated into all of those workings. And I suppose, lastly, you also see the fruit of your labours with the actual delivery of a drug to a patient for their successful treatment and hopefully cure.

I think one of the things I would say is that medicine is changing quite dramatically. As we know, there are major advances in life science and healthcare. We’re seeing the rise of personalised medicines that will continue. Supply chains are having to be developed to support all of that, which is quite exciting. There will be tremendous opportunities in the future and my comment to anybody coming into the industry is to go for it, because it’s a very exciting time.

Other industries have traditionally led the way in Supply Chain development. If we look back 25/30 years ago, automotive led the way with just-in-time and sequencing and things like that. Life sciences tended to be very conservative and has been slower to develop its life science processes in the same way that other industries have, but I think it’s getting there.

I think, also, a lot of the new generation of software is acting as a great enabler to that. Obviously, we haven’t touched on things like artificial intelligence, but it’s clearly on its way, and I see things like that having a huge impact in the whole of the life sciences sector.

What is it like having worked in cell and gene therapy?

Developments in personalised medicine are obviously exciting and those trends - without question, as we just touched on - are accelerating. Around 2019, there was a review of approvals at the FDA medicines and generics where bulk was king. This high volume lent itself to a lot of automation in things like warehousing and so on, which clearly are inappropriate for the personalised medicine space.

I can foresee certainly a lot more developments in that. But are we, as an industry, geared up to do that now? I don’t think we are. The different players in the industry, such as logistic service providers, are going to have a huge role to play in that. I see those supply chains that may be under the same umbrella of management, but being managed separately.

You already see the dichotomy in some of the bigger players, who will maintain their traditional warehouse network with bulk movements of goods and then local distribution to support that, versus this kind of highly specialist sub-sector. I think that sub-sector will of course become more mainstream as the industry ramps up to that and people get more used to it.

We are already seeing a real drive to treat the patient at home, which reduces the cost of those treatments, but what it can mean is extra demands upon the supply chain. If, for example, the patient is being treated in the afternoon, the product therefore can only arrive in that narrow window just beforehand. Evidence suggests, sadly, with the best will in the world, that patients are not particularly good at looking after their medicines when they arrive at home - they don’t follow the instructions - so we have to be very careful around that. However, do I see a greater number of treatments taking place in the home? Yes, I do. That clearly is going to require a very different delivery model for companies and the logistic service providers to support that.

There are also other side factors, and this is where there is a debate in the supply chain of our industry. Some say hospitals will become accident and emergency centres and really not much more than that for mainstream treatments. They will become specialist centres and many patients will be treated at home. However, some evidence suggests that, particularly rare disease patients who are often feeling very isolated by the very nature of their disease and treatment if they’re not common, actually like the interaction with their medical professionals, other disease sufferers, and support groups, and they actually want that personal interaction, which they can only achieve by being in a medical centre. It is going to be a series of interesting developments there. You’ve got a whole maelstrom of things that could or could not happen - it’s an exciting time.

In terms of the start-up environment, what do you think is the most important personality attribute for that environment?

I think it’s linked to one of your earlier questions - it’s that adaptability. In start-up environments, you have to get stuck in and you have to get your hands dirty. It is, however, a question of balance; you have to perhaps do things that can be occasionally considered menial, but it’s essential they get done and, in a start-up environment, there are often no alternative resources to do that.

I think there is that element of uncertainty in terms of what’s going to happen and what you need to do compared with the order of things in a more mature environment. However, you have to retain that focus and strategic perspective, no matter what you’re doing, so there’s that balance between the immediacy and also retaining that direction and focus, in terms of where you need to go as an overall business. It’s a very challenging, but very rewarding, environment.

Why is Switzerland ideal for start-up companies in pharma?

I think there’s almost been a tradition in the last few years that most pharma biotech start-ups have been by a couple of people in a garage somewhere in the US! Jokes apart, I think that is changing, because there is a lot more professionalism around the world that is being applied to these things, specifically for Switzerland. There are obviously some advantages around low tax and access to the major markets to the EU and its central geographic position.

But, in my experience, where Switzerland scores really well is via the workforce. It’s very internationally-focused - there are obviously advantages with the language skills. For example, I have regularly had members of my team who have spoken not just two or three languages, but five or six. If you are a developing business and you’ve suddenly got somebody who can speak the particular language of a target market, that opens up a whole world of possibilities.

Culturally, the Swiss also have a high standard of work and commitment. This, combined with the strong pharmaceutical industry, means Switzerland is very well-positioned to support that start-up environment.

Are there any risks that you have taken throughout your career and how did they help to get you to the level that you are at now?

I have probably lost count of the number of risks I’ve taken in my career. I suppose you need to put that into perspective in that it is a measured risk; it’s not sort of gambling all your life savings on a horse race kind of risk. You need to have that measured risk and you need to have an understanding of the potential downside, as well as the upside.

Putting that into context, I suppose the biggest risk initially I took in my career was going for my first international appointment, which meant upping stakes, moving to a new country, having that completely new environment around me of no familiar infrastructure in the same way. I’m originally from the UK, which meant suddenly you didn’t have your favourite TV programmes, for example, to come home and watch and things like that.

You need to be adaptable. But, the second time you make an international move, you know what’s coming and you know what you need to do to make that change and make it a success. It isn’t just about the work environment, it’s about the complete cultural environment and making sure that you, as a person, gain the most benefit from it. If you have the opportunity, go for it!

Is there any memorable moment from your career and why?

There have been many memorable moments. I’ve obviously met and done a lot of different things, been to some fantastic places, met some incredibly talented and interesting people along the way.

Again, if I had to pick a specific one, it would be the first time I worked internationally. I was moving country, I didn’t speak the language, I had very little in the way of support mechanisms to do that, that kind of came later, because the business I was working in was expanding rapidly at the time and I was still relatively junior.

It took me out of my comfort zone completely and I think it developed me in multiple ways that I could never have foreseen. I think there is this kind of image of an expat lifestyle - somebody sort of sitting in the sunshine somewhere sipping coffee and not actually doing a lot. The reality is incredibly different.

There is almost an onus on you to do more than you would expect, but the benefit is obviously being part of a different culture, being part of a different set-up, and also, as part of that, I do believe it develops you. It certainly developed me as a person, not only in my career, but also in my outlook and personal life.

Thank you to Chris for speaking to our Procurement & Supply Chain recruitment team in Switzerland, led by Neil Cope.

Views and opinions contained within our Executive Interviews are those of the interviewee and not views shared by EMEA Recruitment. 

Clémence Jacqueri is the CHRO People & Culture at Lynk & Co in Amsterdam. Clémence started her career as a Clinical Psychologist, then transitioned into HR while serving as a commissioned officer in the Royal New Zealand Air Force.

Clémence alternated between management consulting, executive Human Resources roles and board appointments for over 15 years, before becoming Senior Director Talent – Global Functions & Emerging Markets at Adidas.

How do you feel leaders can create diverse teams?

Fundamentally, it’s about owning and role modelling behaviours. It’s not something one leader can do on their own; there are very few instances where one individual creates something amazing. It is always about collective ownership.

It is really important to remember that it’s a team effort – often, the structure of companies is such that you employ this one person with a great title, but that’s not how EDI works. It stems from the whole leadership team and each person in a leadership position in the company.

Of course, you can focus on hiring diverse people, but if you don’t have a culture that values diversity, then all the hiring in the world is not going to help you. They will just leave.

This is where I come back to the behaviours - your whole leadership needs to understand the richness and the value that EDI brings. If everyone truly understands that, then their behaviours will reflect it. If all your policies, your processes - not only within HR, but across the whole company - are fully imbedded from a Diversity, Equity & Inclusion perspective, then you can build your leadership behaviours, your managerial behaviours, your organisational culture… but you do need the underlying strength of the policies and the processes to imbed EDI convictions.

I look at what Lynk & Co does in terms of the EDI space. There are a lot of fundamental things, like the rethinking of traditions. A really basic personal example - I am ex-military, right? I am the first one to say, “Hey guys”, and then I think, doh, I didn’t just say that. So, I’ve changed that to, “Hey team” - changing your personal behaviours slightly does make an impact.

From an organisation-wide perspective, I have worked for a lot of companies who give Christmas gifts as a tradition, but many of our employees do not celebrate Christmas, so changing that to end-of-year gift or a company success celebration has inclusivity impact. It doesn’t change the intent or the flavour of it, but it makes it accessible for everybody.

What do you see as the biggest challenges for your business and your own role over the next 12 months?

Just to give you context - for Lynk & Co, at the end of 2020, we had 150 employees. At the end of 2021, we had 500. At the end of this year, we will have over 1,000. So, for us as a company, our biggest challenge now is how we maintain our culture, our feel, our values, in such rapid growth.

At Lynk & Co, we talk about ourselves as an industry disruptor; I think that the way we see ourselves as a company is that we are trying to rethink how we do mobility. The car statistics are horrific - the average car stands still 96% of the time. The collective environmental impact is enormous. Our business model works towards ensuring that people have the car they need when they need it, but when they don’t need it, somebody else uses that car. That’s what we mean by industry disruptor. There is a move away from the car as a status symbol - which in many cultures it still is - and movement towards the car being something that you just use when needed.

Within my team, we are also taking a disruptive approach to traditional HR thinking, creating a more flexible, humanistic way of looking at our people. Again, at a time of rapid growth, I think the biggest challenge is how we can ensure that all our people get what we’re here to do and are enabled to achieve it.

How do you see the Dutch economy evolving in the next five years?

I think the last few years - with COVID and now the war in Europe - have taught me more than anything that life is unpredictable. When I look at a five-year time span, I couldn’t hand on heart say, “This is where I think we’re heading”, because the world suddenly stops on its axis and changes.

When I think about the Dutch economy, overarchingly, I believe the Netherlands is well advanced from a renewable resource perspective, being more sustainable and having a stronger focus on better utilisation of existing resources and assets. This is reflected in the fact that the Netherlands is currently Lynk & Co’s biggest market - we have 35,000 members here in the Netherlands.

The fact that we are a bit of an industry disruptor, the fact that we are looking at car utilisation from a more sustainable perspective, I think resonates with the Dutch population. From a mobility perspective, the Dutch economy seems to be more open and ready to exchange old school car ownership thinking for a more flexible ownership model, for the shared mobility.  

What are the biggest challenges for a leader overseeing a remote team?

My two-word answer - and I will expand on this – is, being human.

We all know about conscious and unconscious bias. Proximity bias is one of the big ones for remote teams. As human beings, we bond more strongly with people we see every day than people who are more distant to us physically. The first thing that we as leaders need to do is be conscious of that. Be aware and put in place equal time for our people, no matter where they are.

The second thing, which comes back to my two-word answer, is being human. To really connect with our people everywhere, leaders need to be human - COVID taught us that, as well. The importance of making those interpersonal connections, the importance of not just listening, but also hearing, is critical in leading any team.

At a team level, the absolute best meeting of the week that I have with my complete team is called the Friyay meeting. This is a meeting where we just say what the best of the week has been for us. It can be in our private life, at work, whatever, but each of us has the opportunity to say, “My best of the week was…”. Again, it’s simple – but I learn a lot about my people from listening to what touches them in a week.

On a macro level, at Lynk & Co, we have a weekly mega jam. Other companies may call this a town hall. Super high energy, our CEO opens each session and, essentially, they are all staff virtual meetings where the whole company updates on where we are at and some of the week’s highlights, Lynk & Co style; it is informal and conversational. It’s a mixture of commercial performance, fun facts and spotlights on individual achievements.

It is the combination of micro and macro behaviours that drive both collective ownership and belonging.

If you could go back and give your younger self some career advice, what would it be?

Careers don’t have to be linear.

Early on in my career, it was like, you must do this job, then this job, then this job, and it was all very linear. In reality, life happens and it is important to go with that. For example, I had time off being a mum, which I wouldn’t change for the world; it was really important to me and I learnt so much more about being a human being through being a parent.

When I lived in India, I took a year off as a street photographer. I literally roamed the streets with a camera and at the end had a solo exhibition - it was fantastic. Not at all related to HR, but my word, I learnt so much! About myself, about different cultures, about humility and generosity from the people on the streets in India.

Early on in my career, I was like, “Oh no, you can’t do that, as you’ll never achieve what you want to achieve if you indulge yourself in these things”. But actually, this would be the one thing that I would say to myself: there are other things that you can do to grow and learn.

Similarly, as a parent and globe trotter, I got into governance. I’ve had multiple board appointments in various countries over the last 20 years. Again, it’s a sideways move – not linear, but has added tremendous value to my commercial focus and understanding of strategic HR.

I would also go back and tell myself that no one is an island. I think there is a lot of pressure that we put on ourselves; yet there are very few things that one individual has achieved completely on their own. When you look at your career, it is about the relationships you build and what you learn from the people in your team who you have watched grow and develop. The people below, above and beside me - the richness that comes from that.

Who did you most admire when you were a child and why?

I wouldn’t choose an individual. For me, what I’ve always admired are character traits.

There are three character traits that I most admire. The first is curiosity. I really admire people who have high levels of curiosity - they don’t bring any judgment with it, but are just curious.

Second is optimism. This is one that I personally struggle with from time-to-time; at times I can feel a bit glass half-empty. I have huge admiration for people who can see the positive straight away.

The final trait would be resilience. I look around me through COVID, with friends and family in war-torn places, and I think, “Wow, people are truly resilient - much more resilient than we think we are.”

How have you seen your approach to HR evolve since the COVID-19 pandemic?

I have seen HR evolve over the last 20-plus years from an administrative function through to the strategic partner that HR is today.

I think COVID enabled not just HR, but the whole business, to be more strategic and humanistic in decision-making. I believe companies today better understand a more holistic perspective, that there has got to be purpose, there has to be meaning in what we do.

You look at the great resignation, the fluidity of today’s workforce, and I believe that a lot of it is based on a search for meaning. There must be a broader purpose for our people, there has to be something that makes a difference based on vision and values, and I think that COVID has taught us that.

The mindset of companies, big and small, has changed to be more people-focused, to be more balanced and humanistic in our approach.

Thank you to Clémence for speaking to our HR recruitment team in the Netherlands, led by Katie Insley.

Views and opinions contained within our Executive Interviews are those of the interviewee and not views shared by EMEA Recruitment. 

Paul Niesing is the Interim President Consumer Insights at NielsenIQ in Geneva, Switzerland. Having started his Finance career in Audit back in 1996, Paul recently made the move into general management. He was previously the CFO Global Retail Intelligence at NielsenIQ.

Your organisation is going through an exciting time. How highly do you rate the trait of adaptability in such circumstances?

Indeed, our organisation has gone through a significant amount of change. Most recently, in March 2021, we got spun off by Nielsen Media Group and were acquired by Advent, a private equity company.

When that happens, a lot of requests - especially in the Finance arena - come to you in advance of the process, but also afterwards. So, be adaptable to all the different circumstances, because - first and foremost - you need to maintain your business-as-usual and drive the teams, drive the results, but, at the same time, be able to manage the different views that are required and go, at times, into pretty big detail, which you would normally not go into in a business-as-usual situation. So, to be able to adapt towards this is very important when you go through a process like this.

Following on from that, what particularly surprised you that you had to adjust quickly to?

Specifically, with that acquisition, the change of the organisation and structure; we were run as a product organisation and we switched very quickly to a regional structure. With that, there were different ways of reporting, which also requires your adaptability. Things that you were used to doing changed almost overnight.

How important and how valuable is the adaptability skillset in the modern world?

For myself and for the coming generation, adaptability is key, because everything is changing continuously - jobs, roles, a lot of project work that requires you to adapt to it, but also requires you to get additional skillsets…

Everything changes at such a high pace, and you might think, “I didn’t learn this”, or “I don’t understand”, but actually, sometimes you just have to go with it and learn as you go, and learn from that. I think, for people who cannot do that, it’s very difficult to get by in Corporate Finance roles.

A recruitment question for you - how can leaders create diverse teams?

When I look at diverse teams, it is not only male/female; I look much more into the perspective that people can give on certain items. When I recruit for roles, or try to build a team, I look at the backgrounds, but more importantly, try to get their perspective on certain issues. It does not mean one perspective is right or the other is wrong, but the way certain people assess a situation or come up with solutions is very important when I try to create a diverse team.

With different perspectives, different ways of thinking, I tend to find you have more opportunity to get to a better place in the end; a more creative way to get somewhere, rather than everyone running behind each other in the same line and doing all the same things.

I think the process of getting there is much more fun with a diverse team and a diverse perspective of business.

It sounds like that only works if you listen to it - it doesn’t matter how diverse your team is, unless you actually take that on board and consider everything?

That’s true. I see myself as a leader that tries to listen a lot. In the end, as a leader, you are responsible for making the decisions, but in the process to get somewhere, listening to the team members that you have put together is very important. I don’t know everything, but getting those perspectives is generally the best way to a solution or direction.

What do you see as the biggest challenges for a) your business and b) your own role over the next 12 months?

What we have seen is there has been a degree of consolidation happening. We had some large mergers and, most recently, we acquired GFK. So, you get some big companies all together, which, in the process - just to survive and to expand and to grow and to deliver what the market requires - requires significant investment.

Next door to that, you have of course many boutique companies that always will remain in their niche market. But, I think, in the last one-and-a-half years, it’s very clear private equity came in and acquired IRI, Kantar, ourselves, we are all owned by private equity, so that’s a very interesting dynamic happening in this marketplace. I think it’s the right way to go forward, otherwise you cannot survive or make the investment needed for the business to flourish.

I recently moved into a general management role for Consumer Insights, so we are a global organisation that does consumer insights across the world. Clearly, we have a number of competitors, of which one is Kantar, but Ipsos is our main competitor. Succeeding in the marketplace requires investment and we try to do a lot through partnerships.

If it is a partnership from a platform perspective or if it’s a partnership in, for instance, the automotive industry, where there is certain detailed knowledge and access, we try to partner with this type of company in order to grow and not make all the investments ourselves, because either it takes too long or it’s too expensive.

In the specific business unit that I’m working in, it’s not so much acquiring other companies ourselves, but it’s more about working together with some other, bigger partners. We have a partnership with JD Power, we have a partnership with Qualtrics, who is a big platform provider.

What changes have you seen in the employment market in Switzerland over the years? How long have you been in Switzerland now?

Almost ten years, I’m located in Geneva. Especially in Geneva, I’ve seen a lot of international companies either shrinking or leaving.

It has an impact on the labour market from two ways - it looks like, on one side, there are fewer jobs available, but, at the same time, some of their senior leaders that they brought into Switzerland - because most of us are brought in from outside of Switzerland - tend to remain or want to remain, because their families are there, they have been living there. With that, you have bigger amounts of supply in senior leadership positions and those do not really match demand.

I think the Swiss market, especially from a senior perspective, has been a more challenging market in the last ten years.

What, in your opinion, have been the drivers for these changes?

I think there are some micro-economic items - tax is a big thing, the streamlining of the tax rates - all that is happening. In the end, in many companies, the financial business case doesn’t make sense anymore. So, we have a lot of people in Switzerland, however, there are other options and maybe cheaper opportunities, as companies always look to lower their costs. I think that’s a big driver behind that, as well.

What have you learnt as a leader over the past 12 months?

When you go through a process that we have gone through, with the acquisition, it then results almost in a transformation of everything that you look at or that you were used to. I think it’s being adaptive and open for it, but also with a broader group, with your teams and the employees, to be able to share and to be clear about it. This could be through meetings, but then we also have - within Consumer Insights - a group called Consumer Insights Ambassadors (the top 100 people across the organisation that function as ambassadors). They get quicker insights of what’s happening, and their task is to communicate that to the broader group.

So, I think that is important, because you can imagine, if you’re located somewhere in Vietnam, it seems very far from what’s happening in the US or in the corporate world, so it’s important that you get regular updates on what is happening, what’s changing, what you see, even if you can’t control it.

That communication piece has been very important in this whole process, because it tries to make you part of the whole process and not just be executing a little piece in the total machine.

That’s interesting, because I imagine your organisation has always had an internal comms piece, but it sounds like you’re really seeing the value of that at this particular point in time?

I do think so. It’s a time of transformation; a lot of things are changing and the way we look at the business is changing, so to communicate and to share why we do certain things is very important, so that people get an understanding and feel part of it. We all drive to get to a better place.

How has your Finance background helped you transition into general management?

Most of my career, I’ve been in Finance roles. Most recently, I was a CFO for the retail intelligence business. As a Finance person, you are always very close with the business in a way, otherwise you cannot succeed or add value.

Now, as I move to general management, a lot of that work and that experience is very valuable, because I think any general manager needs to be able to read financials. For me, that comes very naturally. But then also, as a Finance person, we have a very rational mind, but I have learned to be open for commercial opportunities.

Sometimes, things just don’t make sense from a Finance perspective, however, looking more into it and seeing the market dynamics, and looking a little bit further than just a very short-term view - which we tend to do from a Finance perspective - going a step back is actually very interesting and refreshing. Seeing the value that you as a business can bring and sometimes making a bet; with the Finance perspective, it’s a controllable bet, so I really enjoy that step over into general business.

If you could go back and give your younger self some career advice, what would it be?

I started in Accountancy, which I do not regret, because I think it was a very dynamic start - I saw a lot of different companies while doing my studies. I do not regret that, but maybe at that time, I should have focused a little bit more on leadership programmes.

At NielsenIQ, we have a two-year leadership programme, and I’ve seen it in companies like Unilever or General Electric. Those are very interesting; you learn a lot about that company, but you also move around. If you’re lucky, you can be abroad quickly, outside of your country.

From that perspective, if I could do it all over again, I would focus on that more; just getting out there quicker and following a leadership programme.

You mean, as an alternative to your Accounting education, going directly into one of those financial management programmes, straight from graduation?

I think it’s important to make switches early in your career - don’t go straight from university and stay ten or 15 years with one company. I think it’s healthier if you switch every four years - there is so much to see, so many different companies, so it widens your perspective on what the world has to offer. I would recommend everyone do that, not to stay with one employer in the early years of your career.

What is the best compliment you have ever received?

I’m Dutch, so with compliments, we normally go, “Oh, okay.”  It’s a difficult question. I think the best compliment is when, from a Finance perspective, there are no surprises, no misses… things go smooth and you take the problems away from your general manager. You solve things before they start to boil up. I had many times when there was appreciation, from that perspective.

Thank you to Paul for speaking to John Bower, Director in our Finance & Accountancy recruitment team in Switzerland.

Views and opinions contained within our Executive Interviews are those of the interviewee and not views shared by EMEA Recruitment. 

Julien Famaro is the Finance Director, Corporate at Amcor in Switzerland. He was previously the Manager, M&A/Strategic Development and Manager, Corporate Planning & Analysis at the organisation, starting his career as Senior Associate, Industry & Services at PwC.

What motivated you to pursue a career in Finance and what other career options did you consider?

I was relatively good with numbers, but wouldn’t have called myself a numbers guy either. Also, I did Accounting at university. My interest in Finance started relatively late – I remember one exercise that was part of a module called Financial Analysis, where we were given a set of financial statements and had to write everything we could guess about the company. I enjoyed translating the numbers into real life and I guess I found it fun enough to apply for a master’s in Corporate Finance.

What risks have you taken throughout your career and how did they help you get to the level you are at?

I am quite risk averse, so I don’t take many risks, but believe in courage. I have the tendency to raise my hand to take on challenges outside of my comfort zone. I like learning by doing and I get my energy trying to achieve things I have never done and know nothing about. It helped me progress faster, because it allowed me to learn and get exposed.  

What have you learnt as a leader over the past 12 months?

The past 12 months just made me appreciate how rapidly things can change. I try to focus on what really matters and not worry or stress about what I can’t control. I am certainly more positive than I used to be as well, and I believe this helps support the morale of people around me.

I focus on having fun doing what I do and try to give space to my team for them to innovate, show ownership and feel proud of what they achieve. People are always good at what they enjoy doing.

You returned to Amcor in 2021 after a couple of years in another business. What would you say are the most attractive reasons for someone to work for Amcor?

I would say that there are probably three things that I find very true at Amcor:

The first one is that we have constant changes and challenges. The second one: I believe we have some of the strongest people in the industry, and the third: we have a true outperformance culture.

I joined an Australian company early 2016 - listed in Australia, reporting in IFRS - that was just moving its HQ from Melbourne to Zürich. Today, I work for an S&P500.

We also tend to like generalists – at least in the Finance space. We like flexible, commercially-oriented people, keen to take on new challenges and get out of their comfort zones. We are performance-driven, constantly aiming for the extra mile and supporting each other to achieve the best possible outcomes. Outperformance is deeply ingrained in our culture, which is something I enjoy.

What does Amcor do to drive its sustainability agenda?

In 2018, we pledged to develop all our packaging to be recyclable and reusable by 2025, which is in two-and-a-half years. We truly acknowledged that we needed to help and aspire to make the environment better off thanks to our leadership and products.

We invest a lot of money in R&D to ensure we are at the full potential. We have also forged new partnerships with non-governmental organizations and promising start-ups, and redesigned many of our products to be recycle-ready.

We also recently finalised a rebranding of our brand portfolio, making it clearer for our customers to understand how we can address their needs. One of those brands, Ecoguard, is a responsible packaging solution addressing both how the product is made, using biomaterials or recycled content, as well as what happens after the consumer uses it.

Sustainability is Amcor’s biggest opportunity, and we are all working hard to make a difference faster and further.

What would you say is the most rewarding part of your role, either as a leader or in your specific role?

We drive and influence people around us and a lot of our initiatives have a clear financial impact. It becomes easy to measure our contribution.

Also, constant changes mean opportunities for process improvements and simplifications. We’ve spent the last few months trying to re-focus on what matters and making our processes simpler, and this is paying off. This is exciting and gives energy to keep on transforming our space.

Based on your own experiences, what advice would you give to a young Finance professional aspiring to leadership roles?

I personally try to remain curious, work hard, focus on what really matters and be nice to people.  

What is the most common mistake you see from candidates at interview and what would be a key piece of advice for interview preparation?

Too often people come to interviews like they go to a driving test.

I expect interviews to look more like a conversation and be interactive. I want to be interviewed too and expect the candidates to have almost as many questions as I do.

Some candidates often forget to be fun. Smiling and being likable is just as important as explaining what you can do.

Thank you to Julien for speaking to Meriel Graham, Director in our Finance & Accountancy recruitment team in Switzerland.

Views and opinions contained within our Executive Interviews are those of the interviewee and not views shared by EMEA Recruitment.